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Old January 25, 2012, 03:49 PM   #76
C0untZer0
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Quote:
Do we think it was OK for him to try to hold two attackers at gun point when one has a gun?
No

I don't think that was a sound tactical decision. It could have opened things up to get much worse. It did lead to one of the robbbers pointing a gun at him (drawing a bead on him?).


Quote:
I think it would be alright at that point (when the gun was pointed at him) to draw and immediately go hot
I think it was unwise to pass up an opportunity to use his firearm on the assialants and wait until the assailant actually pointed his gun at him to fire.

I agree with Brent:

Quote:
It is that waiting until a gun is pointed my way I don't like...

.

Last edited by C0untZer0; January 25, 2012 at 03:54 PM.
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Old January 25, 2012, 04:32 PM   #77
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Quote:
http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/pa...nLaws-1998.pdf
"... results suggest that shall-issue laws have resulted, if anything, an increase in adult homicide rates"
Ludwig uses people too young to carry as a control group for a state that has instituted right to carry laws. I don't buy that as young people are often around people who do carry and may get some of the protective benefit. A better control would be a nearby state that has not changed its carry law. I'm surprised Ludwig didn't use the states that didn't change carry laws as a control group as that is what he used when evaluating the effects of the Brady Bill.


Here is a good discussion of the effects of concealed carry on crime.

While the effects on crime rates are ambiguous, concealed carry can and does make a big difference to individuals.
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Old January 25, 2012, 07:00 PM   #78
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The crime reduction related to CCW discussion is certainly a worthy subject, but the problem is that it is probably un-ending, at least from a statistical data stand point.

When I started this thread I was thinking more in terms of how we all feel when we choose to CCW on a daily basis. I know when I walk out the door I am not thinking about crime statistics, but more about what I can or would do if confronted by a BG threating myself or my family. Well, now days there is just my wife and myself, my kids are all grown and living in other states.

Anyway, I find it's best to think out actions before they happen rather than waiting until it actually happens. I am not sure I would have done exactly as the CCW person in the Waffle House incident, but it's a real world situation that should be studied.

You go out on a nice daylight trip to eat breakfast and all of a sudden your are defending your life.
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Old January 25, 2012, 10:11 PM   #79
Sefner
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You go out on a nice daylight trip to eat breakfast and all of a sudden your are defending your life.
I think this has to be part of the mindset of a concealed carrier... It would definitely help with the guilt that occurs after using your firearm in self defense. I think it was Massad Ayoob (his name be praised) that said that you have to tell yourself after a defensive shooting that (paraphrasing here, I cannot even hope to be as eloquent) "you did not wake up that day and decide to visit violent acts upon innocent people."
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Old January 26, 2012, 04:23 PM   #80
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madmag said...
Quote:
This back room thing is a key issue for me. Once you give into going to the back room you are trusting what the BG's want to do.....I don't like those odds. I will not interfere if robbers go to the counter and leave with the cash, but if they come to my area and demand people to go to a back room then there will be trouble for sure.
Negotiations at the end of a weapon aren't negotiations at all and there is no reason to believe the honesty of a person committing a dishonest act.

I understanding about not interfering with a robber that goes to the counter and leaves with the cash. Of course, you are "trusting" the robber won't start shooting before leaving. It doesn't happen often, of course, and that is why compliance is often a very good thing to do when you (the general public, not you personally) haven't a clue about what to do or haven't thought about your options before the event starts.

Quote:
The crime reduction related to CCW discussion is certainly a worthy subject, but the problem is that it is probably un-ending, at least from a statistical data stand point.
If you think about it as a CCW person, what is the one or one set of statistics that matters to you at the end of the day? Is it whether or not crime was reduced or is it that you and your loved ones got through another day? I can't think of a single person that I have spoken with who has been involved in ccw use of a gun or any recounting of the events by a ccw person who acted in self defense that ever gave a single thought to crime statistics, crime rates, or how their event fit with any sort of trends. What they all seem to care about is that they, their loved ones, and may be others survived as a result of their actions.
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Old January 26, 2012, 08:28 PM   #81
C0untZer0
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I believe that you should be thinking when you're carrying - that goes from not doing things that create or escalate confrontations to how you react in a robbery or car jacking.

I am glad this turned out well. If it hadn't, you can be sure the Brady Campaign would be using it as grist for their agenda pandering mill.

My first thought when trying to hold criminals at gun point - especially when at least one of them is obviously armed woudl be that I'm going to get shot.

I would also be thinking about the dangers to others of precipitating a shootout - that's why if I had the oportunity to simply shoot the assailants while their attention was diverted or even while their backs were turned - I'd take it.
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