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Old January 21, 2012, 12:23 PM   #26
Aguila Blanca
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Buck, I think at this point we are all confused. The OP (original poster) has said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by litlewolf2
Fifth as far as my own charge goes it was a felony but was knocked down to a misdemeanor. It currently is classified as a misdemeanor but since it was a Felony initially it triggered the Gun Control Act and is still in effect despite the current status.
and then

Quote:
My right to vote and help determine how this country is run has been restored, but by Second amendment right to bear arms has been taken away just doesn't seem right.
From the first of these two statements, it sounds like a plea bargain, but it isn't clear. It could also have been a post-sentence reduction as some sort of accelerated rehabilitation thing, I suppose. Either way, though, at this point it should be showing up in the state's records as a misdemeanor conviction. Then the question becomes, was the maximum POSSIBLE sentence for that misdemeanor more or less than two years?

As to the second, if the OP's right to vote has been restored, then according to the GCA he is not considered to be a prohibited person unless the restoration specifically noted that his rights were restored conditional upon his not being allowed to possess firearms. For a state conviction, the Federal law only requires restoration of rights by the state, so I can't understand what all the fuss is about. Somebody has given him extremely bad advice, and he is now convinced that the bad advice is correct and that we are all wrong.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; January 21, 2012 at 05:19 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old January 22, 2012, 09:50 AM   #27
Spats McGee
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Welcome to The Firing Line, littlewolf2!

I'm puzzled about one (perhaps very picky) detail:

Quote:
Originally Posted by litlewolf2
Fifth as far as my own charge goes it was a felony but was knocked down to a misdemeanor. It currently is classified as a misdemeanor but since it was a Felony initially it triggered the Gun Control Act and is still in effect despite the current status.
I read the original petition (before revision), and if I recall correctly, it said something to the effect of littlewolf2 doing something like 5 years probation before having the charge knocked down to a misdemeanor.

Here's my confusion: Was LW2 convicted of a felony or not? Ordinarily, if someone's going to be put on probation and serve out a sentence for a misdemeanor, that's part of a plea deal, and the conviction is entered as a misdemeanor on the front end. Alternatively, in some diversion programs, I suspect that the felony charge may be suspended until the end of the probation period, so that it can be reduced to a misdemeanor if the defendant successfully completes probation. In that case, we still shouldn't have entry of a felony charge at the beginning of the probationary period. It sounds to me like he was charged with a felony and someone messed up and entered a felony conviction when they shouldn't have. Frankly, this doesn't sound like a GCA issue so much as a paperwork issue.

I guess my second question (that's just now dawning on me), LW2 is this: when you say "my charge was knocked down to a misdemeanor," you mean your charge in your case, right? (Not that your legislature has reclassified the crime so that someone charged with it now faces a misdemeanor.)
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Old January 22, 2012, 03:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
I have only limited compassion for those who break the law when the law is clear. People need to understand that there are consequences to their actions and those might be long lasting and serious.
What if the law is evil?
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Old January 22, 2012, 04:01 PM   #29
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2GunCorcoran
What if the law is evil?
"Evil" is a value judgment. To become a law, a compilation of words must have been weighed and voted on by an assembly of duly-elected representatives, a majority of whom voted in favor of adopting said compilation of words as a law. Regardless of how much you or I or any of us might disagree with the wisdom, efficacy, or constitutionality of a particular law, not even I believe that the majority of lawmakers are truly "evil" or have evil intent.

Irrespective of which, even if we regard a law as "evil," it is the law. If you think a law is evil, do whatever you can to change or repeal it. I have been instrumental in getting one state law repealed, and another revised. At the moment, I'm in the process of getting a town ordinance repealed or amended (too soon to know which way the Ordinance Committee is going to lean, but they have agreed that the ordinance as written doesn't make sense and is unenforceable).
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Old January 22, 2012, 04:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
To become a law, a compilation of words must have been weighed and voted on by an assembly of duly-elected representatives, a majority of whom voted in favor of adopting said compilation of words as a law.
Even slavery fit these criteria.

Quote:
not even I believe that the majority of lawmakers are truly "evil" or have evil intent.
Their intent does not matter. Their deeds are evil.

Quote:
If you think a law is evil, do whatever you can to change or repeal it.
Like civil disobedience. If the law required you to do something evil, would you do it?
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Old January 22, 2012, 10:17 PM   #31
litlewolf2
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Felony to misdemeanor

I was charged with a felony but was negotiated that it would be knocked down to a misdemeanor once I completed my probation. So it was a felony for 5 years and once my probation was completed it was reduced to a misdemeanor.

I applied for a hand gun permit at the with a sheriffs department. They could not allow the permit to go through due to federal restrictions. The state would not limit it, however the sheriff will not allow something that is illegal on a federal level. This was explained in the rejection letter I received after I applied for the permit. I would quote it but this was done several years ago and probably threw it away. But this was done many years after it was knocked down to a misdemeanor. I made sure that the state did have it officially knocked down to a misdemeanor with the department of corrections and the of bureau criminal apprehension so there was no confusion between state and fed.
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Old January 22, 2012, 11:09 PM   #32
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2GunCorcoran
Like civil disobedience. If the law required you to do something evil, would you do it?
There is a HUGE difference between a law with which you disagree, that says you may NOT do something without first obtaining a license, and a law that says you MUST do something morally abhorrent.

How does this discussion in any way involve a law that requires someone to do something evil?
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Old January 22, 2012, 11:17 PM   #33
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litlewolf2
I was charged with a felony but was negotiated that it would be knocked down to a misdemeanor once I completed my probation. So it was a felony for 5 years and once my probation was completed it was reduced to a misdemeanor.

I applied for a hand gun permit at the with a sheriffs department. They could not allow the permit to go through due to federal restrictions. The state would not limit it, however the sheriff will not allow something that is illegal on a federal level. This was explained in the rejection letter I received after I applied for the permit. I would quote it but this was done several years ago and probably threw it away. But this was done many years after it was knocked down to a misdemeanor. I made sure that the state did have it officially knocked down to a misdemeanor with the department of corrections and the of bureau criminal apprehension so there was no confusion between state and fed.
You were not rejected by the Federal government. You were rejected by a county sheriff's department, which cited (incorrectly, it would seem) an alleged Federal law. Further, did you show the sheriff's office the dcument you received showing that your civil rights had been restored? Do you still have that document? If not, get a new copy, because it's important.

IMHO, instead of wasting a lot of time on a petition that isn't going to accomplish anything because you're asking the Federal BATFE to do something they can't do -- restore your rights under a state conviction, and rights that have already BEEN restored on top of it. I think you would get a lot farther if you would do two things:

(1) Pay an attorney to research ALL state records to verify that they show your conviction was classified as a misdemeanor;

(2) Reapply for a permit and, if you are rejected, keep the letter and pay the attorney to appeal the rejection on the grounds that, per the Federal GCA, you are NOT a prohibited person once your rights were restored.
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Old January 23, 2012, 08:53 AM   #34
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The first thing that caught my attention when reading the LilWolfes post was "They", just like AB put in bold.

Are you, by any chance, a troubled youth? Maybe come from the wrong side of the tracks? One of "Them" families who we really do not want them to have any more guns? Or is your sheriff just an anti-gun guy?

All of the above are excuses people have heard from or about a sheriffs Department that does not want to issue you a gun permit. (I could answer yes to two of the four questions above )

I really think you should get an attorney who specializes in firearms or records correction and have him look at the situation. You should get a copy of your conviction and all paperwork that deals will the disposition of your case before you go see him/her.

It really shoulds like the ball was dropped on the paperwork side of the case.
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Last edited by Uncle Buck; January 25, 2012 at 04:11 PM.
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