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Old December 2, 2011, 01:36 AM   #51
Mello2u
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Quote:
anonimoose
. . . . but isn't there a reason why the pistol is considered a short range weapon?
Defensive handguns are considered short range weapons compared to rifles. Given the stress and time pressure of a defensive shooting most shots miss at under 5 yards in a gunfight.
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Old December 2, 2011, 10:12 AM   #52
Will Lee
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Quote:
interpreting Box O' Truth: the "best" home-defense round
Well written & well thought out. I would like to add this:

When concerned about Home Defense you must consider the worst case scenario.

Here is one to think about:

You had dinner with friends or family and a few drinks. You go to bed feeling real relaxed and fall into a deep sleep. At 2:00 AM you wake up to the sound of your back door being kicked in and shattering glass. In that moment you look from your bedroom into the kitchen, 30 feet away, and there stands a 300 lb gorilla with a flashlight shining in your eyes. At that moment in time you will experience one of two emotions, anger or fear. Either of these emotions will be accompanied by a large dose of adrenaline. Your hands will be shaking and your mind will be racing. You reach for you pistol on the nightstand, you fire at the intruder with the flashlight shining in your face. What do you think your chances are of hit him? I say slim to none. Go back to where you reached for your pistol and grab your rifle, don’t matter what kind or caliber, that you had setting by your bed. Are you going to be able to aim and hit the intruder? Probably not.. Remember the emotions & adrenaline. Also keep in mind that all of this is taking place in a matter of seconds.

Solution – 12 gauge pump shotgun (one of the pistol grip short versions) with 0 or 00 buck shoot. 2 or 3 shots from the waist toward the flashlight, you will not miss and you and your family will be safe.
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Old December 2, 2011, 11:01 AM   #53
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I do agree with appyling common sense and reasonable caution when considering the use a of any firearm for any purpose but I would also say that at some point the entire process can become over intellectualized.

If I must use a firearm to defend myself, I will do my best to insure that my actions are reasonably measured and competent. As far as what firearm I would use would greatly depend on where I am in my home. My personal choice for my specific set of circumstances, is a 38 revolver. If I have to use a rifle or shotgun, the same rules apply.
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Old December 2, 2011, 11:14 AM   #54
Don P
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Well, learned something new today, that 300 lb. Gorilla's know how to use flashlights
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Old December 2, 2011, 11:29 AM   #55
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Lee
Solution – 12 gauge pump shotgun (one of the pistol grip short versions) with 0 or 00 buck shoot. 2 or 3 shots from the waist toward the flashlight, you will not miss and you and your family will be safe.
I'd encourage you to go out to the range and give that solution a try; and even better, compare it to other possible solutions with a shot timer. I think you might find that solution is less than ideal, even in the calm, non-stressed range environment.

My own experience has been that with my open choke 18" 12 gauge, the pattern only opens about 1" for every yard travelled - so at 30', we are talking a 10" pattern - which while nice, is certainly no guarantee you won't miss - and shooting from the waist is certainly a good way to miss, even with a 10" pattern - not to mention that if you are trying to fire 2 or 3 shots in rapid succession, not having the gun up on your shoulder is really going to slow down your recovery between shots.
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Old December 2, 2011, 06:55 PM   #56
jhenry
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Go shoot that pistol gripped 12 gauge in a 2 or 3 gun match and tell me all about how you just couldn't miss.

In the daylight.
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Old December 2, 2011, 07:52 PM   #57
redstategunnut
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Quote:
Here is one to think about:

You had dinner with friends or family and a few drinks. You go to bed feeling real relaxed and fall into a deep sleep. At 2:00 AM you wake up to the sound of your back door being kicked in and shattering glass. In that moment you look from your bedroom into the kitchen, 30 feet away, and there stands a 300 lb gorilla with a flashlight shining in your eyes. At that moment in time you will experience one of two emotions, anger or fear. Either of these emotions will be accompanied by a large dose of adrenaline. Your hands will be shaking and your mind will be racing. You reach for you pistol on the nightstand, you fire at the intruder with the flashlight shining in your face. What do you think your chances are of hit him? I say slim to none. Go back to where you reached for your pistol and grab your rifle, don’t matter what kind or caliber, that you had setting by your bed. Are you going to be able to aim and hit the intruder? Probably not.. Remember the emotions & adrenaline. Also keep in mind that all of this is taking place in a matter of seconds.

Solution – 12 gauge pump shotgun (one of the pistol grip short versions) with 0 or 00 buck shoot. 2 or 3 shots from the waist toward the flashlight, you will not miss and you and your family will be safe.
All due respect, you don't even know what you don't know.
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Old December 2, 2011, 09:28 PM   #58
K_Mac
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If you cant hit something, anything, at a range of 25 feet with a shotgun then I dont know what to say.
Getting a few pellets of 8 shot in a target and stopping a bad guy are very different things. Shooting buckshot at 25 feet at a moving target that may be armed and dangerous with evil intent, with the adrenalin pumping and lives in the balance is not a sure thing even with practice. I pray I am never in that situation, but I am not naive enough to think it is.
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Old December 2, 2011, 10:18 PM   #59
Edward429451
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Man, I wish I had the luck of you shotguneers. I have to aim my shotgun or I miss.

For awhile there I figured a SG is the thing to have for indoor HD. But it seems to me that I keep hearing more and more about home invasions with multiple perps. Now if I had multiple perps in the house, would I want a 12 ga SG?

No I wouldn't, I would want something faster firing and hi capacity, and perhaps the perps are armored even? Suddenly the AR15 stands out. Now testing has concluded that the fragmenting rounds are (so called) safer for residential neighborhoods etc...does this make the AR's the wise mans choice for HD?

I conclude that shotguns are superfluous, anything that needs done can be done with a pistol or rifle. (ducking)
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Old December 3, 2011, 08:59 PM   #60
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At my present home, the maximum distance is about 21 feet, and so I practice at 7 yards. At my new home the maximum distance is more like 60-70 feet. It was enough for me to get a good shotgun and practice, practice, practice. Between it, the pistol, and the AR, I haven't really decided what I'll be using when I move, but I have all bases covered.
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Old December 3, 2011, 10:29 PM   #61
Slopemeno
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Pistol grips? No. Unsighted fire? No.

The main advantage I see to a long-gun, any long gun, for home defense is that fact that it's way easier to make hits under stress. You're getting the butt, cheek, left and right hand helping you index.

If I know I'm going into an armed confrontation a pistol isn't on my to-do list.
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Old December 9, 2011, 01:30 PM   #62
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I may be young and dumb, but let me get this right. A "frangible rifle round may tumble, yaw and fragment." A believe in my experience a frangible round fragments into many, many small pieces. I've shot P-dogs with frangible .223 rounds and it doesn't even exit, it just explodes. If there is tumbling and fragmenting during and after penetration it is not a frangible round. Just because a fmj fragments doesn't make it a frangible round. Unless I'm missing something here.

Why does the shotgun always have to have buckshot loaded in it to be considered a home protection round. I keep #8 loaded in my home defense SG. It's not going to over penetrate as compared to buckshot, fmj's or jhp's and I don't believe anybody is going to get up after being hit with #8 shot at 7yds or even 10.
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Old December 13, 2011, 03:19 AM   #63
MikeNice81
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There was a school principal in NC that had most of his lower face and a finger blown off by a shotgun at eight feet. He drove over 15 miles to get help.

Don't expect any kind of shot that doesn't destroy the central nervous system to stop a person quickly.
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