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Old December 8, 2011, 02:04 PM   #26
Skans
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Although I am not one to shoot down a fleeing criminal (because I don't want to be on the wrong side of the law and/or hurt innocents in the process), I will say this. I have no regard for an armed robber's life whatsoever - complete and utter waste of human flesh.
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Old December 8, 2011, 02:20 PM   #27
Dragline45
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MTT TL - That is one view point, one taken from the eye of a police officer.

The counter viewpoint to that is living a long healthy life knowing that you could have stopped someone from killing your friends when you had the means, opportunity and ability but; you failed because you had not the personal courage and conviction to do so. I'd rather not live my life that way.
No one died, there was no opportunity to confront the robbers, and courage and conviction has nothing to do with this so I dont see what you are getting at. Unless the robbers are attacking or seriously threatening the victims(which will still be hard to prove in court), you cannot just go out blasting away at them or you will be the one sitting in a jail cell.

Last edited by Dragline45; December 8, 2011 at 02:26 PM.
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Old December 8, 2011, 03:14 PM   #28
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I'm not clear on the sequence of events. Your friends were robbed, then you called 911 and went outside with a pistol. Where were your friends when you went outside? Where were the robbers relative to your friends and relative to your bar? I guess the biggest questions is, did you arrive when the BGs still had a gun trained on your friends, or after they were out of danger? I am trying to fit a robbery, a call, and your going outside into a timeline, and I keep coming up with some BGs plying their trade at an unusually leisurely pace.

Another thought on security that costs very little is adequate lighting around the entrance and approaches to your bar. If you know a little bit about wiring, you can spend $50 or $100 at Lowes and light up a small storefront like noontime.
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Old December 8, 2011, 07:04 PM   #29
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Real deal

I was mainly looking for positive vs negative feedback for my actions and right or wrong, I am no coward, just a person looking for feedback from others. We are a small neiborhood bar. The lighting is plentiful around the building and there is a security system in place, however this all took place under a lighted sign with a camera on top. Unfortunitely the camera is pointed to show the parking area and not directly under the lighted sign. The robbery took place in a matter of 3-6 minutes. They were sitting in a car warming it up when it happened. I was notified by the customer shaking the door and screaming, the door is about 10 steps away. I was on my cell phone when I exited the building and the bg's were at the end of the property when I got outside so I had time to draw my weapon and make the decision. One turned and faced me with a weapon in hand. As I said my decision was based upon the area and possible harm to others and property. The only danger at that point would have been if the bg decided to fire at me, everone else was clear. I was beside my truck aiming accross the hood.
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Old December 8, 2011, 07:43 PM   #30
MTT TL
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No one died, there was no opportunity to confront the robbers, and courage and conviction has nothing to do with this so I dont see what you are getting at. Unless the robbers are attacking or seriously threatening the victims(which will still be hard to prove in court), you cannot just go out blasting away at them or you will be the one sitting in a jail cell.
My post was in response to YD talking about avoiding a gun fight by not going. What I am getting at is that is not always the best course of action. Nothing I have posted indicates any particular willingness to go "blasting" away at people. If you are seeing that you are likely projecting.
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Old December 8, 2011, 07:52 PM   #31
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I was notified by the customer shaking the door and screaming, the door is about 10 steps away. I was on my cell phone when I exited the building and the bg's were at the end of the property when I got outside so I had time to draw my weapon and make the decision. One turned and faced me with a weapon in hand. As I said my decision was based upon the area and possible harm to others and property. The only danger at that point would have been if the bg decided to fire at me, everone else was clear. I was beside my truck aiming accross the hood.
I interpret this as meaning that the people who had been robbed were "safely" inside, with the robbers outside. If that is the case then I would likely have not gone outside if no one else was in immediate danger. I probably would have drawn my weapon and covered the door at the low ready behind cover and waited for the police to arrive (while keeping them informed and in contact until they arrived).

If someone else were in danger I would have gone outside, It is hard to go over every point.

I would say you did fine though.
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Old December 8, 2011, 07:54 PM   #32
TexasJustice7
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If they just wanted my cash I would have taken $50 or more out and gave it to them. If they want my wallet which contains my ID cards, my driver's license, my gun permit, my VA card, and various debit cards, and I have the
chance to prevent them they are in for a gunfight, because I won't surrender those if I think I can stop them. I worry more about identity theft once they get my wallet than I worry about letting them have the money.
But in Texas one has no duty to retreat, and one has the right to stop a felony in progress such as a robbery. The only consideration to me would be whether I could draw fast enough. If its my car they want and I have a disabled family member in it, I am going for my gun regardless.
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Old December 8, 2011, 08:04 PM   #33
breeze
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real deal

You are correct in that all were safely out of harms way. I did what I did out of pure adrenilin and inability to think of concequence of my actions, thanks for all the input from everyone, it has been a real learning experience.
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Old December 8, 2011, 08:29 PM   #34
Vermonter
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you lost your cool

So you secured the unarmed, contacted leo, and then went outside to confront the robbers. Going outside sounds like the point where adrenilen took over. The positive news here is the fact that you re gained your cool prior to shooting an armed individual on your property.
If an armed person turned to confront me with a weapon in hand i am not sure if they would have time to run off.
It sounds as though your actions resulted in a positive result for all involved and i have a good deal of respect for your decision to put others safety above your own.
Hopefully you never face such a situation ever again.
Regards, Vermonter
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Old December 8, 2011, 11:59 PM   #35
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You called 911-great. Then you went outside and pulled your gun-on who? Why pull your gun if you're not going to use it and basically why did you go outside to begin with? That's kinda strange to me but glad no one was hurt. You did good by calling 911
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Old December 9, 2011, 12:08 AM   #36
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If you read my last 2 posts, that will answer your question, thanks for your input and concern.
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Old December 9, 2011, 12:33 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Yankee Doodle View Post
Breeze.
The simple fact is, Cops are paid to put their lives on the line, let them do their job. They have been thoroughly trained in how to handle just such a situation. Have you?
Typical cop attitude... "let the professionals handle it".

Reality is that cops spend much more of their time taking reports after the crime is committed and the injuries are inflicted on the innocent than the do actually stopping a crime from happening. Defend yourself and your loved ones with vigor. Don't wait on the cops to ride to your rescue.
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Old December 9, 2011, 01:22 AM   #38
breeze
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Mods- please close this thread, thanks.

My reason for calling leo was to inform them of a life or death situation and to protect my ass in case of what may have been a tradgic turn out. I belive I would have been within my right to protect person and property and hesitation only saved me and them from certain litigation. I have leo in my family and have paid much attention to my rights as well as the perps "and yes they also have rights" in this situation. "SPELLING MAY BE INCORRECT". My only concern now is if it will happen again given our location and the fact that it has now happened once. All of the reponses I have recieved have there merit and are duly noted, but again, if it happened to you in real life, what would you do? I have told you my side, thanks again for all of the response and I think we could close the thread now before more name calling and would have/ could have gets out of hand, thanks and have a safe and long life "Merry Christmas and happy holiday's to everyone".
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Old December 9, 2011, 01:40 AM   #39
TheNocturnus
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Wow people, I'm surprised after all these comments no one suggested that the bar owner offer them a drink on the house after this ordeal. jeez...
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Old December 9, 2011, 01:50 AM   #40
breeze
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On the house

OK, one last comment. They are here now and I did buy them drinks all night. I'm calling them a cab right now. Customer service!! Thanks again to all.
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Old December 9, 2011, 06:17 AM   #41
MTT TL
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pulled your gun-on who? Why pull your gun if you're not going to use it
He was using it. You don't have to pull the trigger to use a gun. Having it out of the holster and ready to go is mostly better if you are expected to contact armed assailants.

The down side to that is if someone had already called the cops and they rolled up on him suddenly. At that point the cops would be more likely to kill him then the bad guys. Being ambushed by the bad guys or shot by the police mistakenly is really the main reason not to go back out there if no one else is in danger.

Given the situation he was acting instinctively and had not considered the above. It is not everyone who moves towards the sound of the guns.
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Old December 9, 2011, 09:27 AM   #42
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Wow people, I'm surprised after all these comments no one suggested that the bar owner offer them a drink on the house after this ordeal. jeez...
Lol, post #22. I know I'd need one for sure.
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Old December 9, 2011, 01:35 PM   #43
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Closed by OP's request. This one was about worn out anyhow.
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