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Old November 20, 2011, 01:44 PM   #1
9ballbilly
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hatcher guns

I would like to know if there is any possible way to own legally one of the Hatcherguns SBS in New York state. For those unfamiliar with the gun it is a SideXside shotgun with 8 1/4" bbls. and a pistol grip based on the Stoeger coach gun.
I seem to be finding conflicting opinions and definitions, so am looking for some legal clarification.

My interest in the Rossi Ranch Hand licensed as a handgun got me thinking about the Hatcher. I think it would make a nice companion to the Ranch hand.

I would really appreciate any knowledgeable info.

Best wishes, Bill
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Old November 20, 2011, 01:52 PM   #2
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A "rifle" manufacturee and sold as a handgun is just a handgun. A "handgun" sized smoothbore is always a "sawed off shotgun", and you will need both NYS and Federal approval to own one.

It won't be simple, easy, rapid, or cheap. But if you are citizen and have no disqualifying legal issues (and I believe NYS still requires character references as well) then there is no valid reason for denial.
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Old November 20, 2011, 05:27 PM   #3
dogtown tom
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Quote:
44 AMP ......A "handgun" sized smoothbore is always a "sawed off shotgun"...
Not true.
A "shotgun" is a firearm that can be fired from the shoulder. If the firearm expels a shotgun shell and manufactured without a shoulder stock it may be classified as an AOW. (Any Other Weapon)

If you replace the Taurus Judge with a smooth bore bbl it becomes an AOW.

$5.00 tax stamp for an AOW transfer.
$200 tax stamp for manufacturing your own AOW.
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Old November 20, 2011, 11:39 PM   #4
9ballbilly
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44amp,
Thanks for the help. Do you by any chance know where to find the correct application forms for both federal and NYS applications? Do these need to be signed off on by a local Chief LEO?

FYI: I am a natural born U.S. citizen, Former LEO, and have had an "unrestricted" NYS pistol permit for 25+ yrs.

I've never dealt with this kind of issue before so any shove in the right direction will be appreciated. FWIW I have no intention of using it for anything besides informal target shooting, as I have other firearms ( including the S&W 4006 .40 cal autoloader that served as my duty weapon ) for HD use.
Sorry to be so long winded but I thought I should include any pertinent info. before asking for your assistance.

Thanks again, Bill
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Old November 21, 2011, 10:53 PM   #5
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You're right, Dogtown, my statement wasn't complete enough for my intent.

A handgun size smoothbore is always a "sawed off shotgun" in the legal sense, meaning there is some category of the NFA it falls under.

Sorry, 9ballbilly, I don't know the specifics of the applications. Going to the ATF websight would probably be a good start. I do know that ATF approval for machineguns includes sign off from your local Top LEO as part of it. I assume it might be the same for AOW category, but don't know for sure.

I grew up in NY, but haven't lived there in decades, so I don't know where to start, there, either. But I'm sure you could find some place on the web to begin.
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Old November 26, 2011, 11:55 AM   #6
PTK
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It appears that NY does not allow NFA items. Sorry.

Quote:
§ 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree.
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth
degree when:
(1) He or she possesses any firearm
Quote:
§ 265.00 Definitions.
As used in this article and in article four hundred, the following
terms shall mean and include:

...

3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d)
any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches;

Quote:
§ 265.02 Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree.
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the third
degree when:


...

(3) Such person knowingly possesses a machine-gun, firearm, rifle or
shotgun which has been defaced for the purpose of concealment or
prevention of the detection of a crime or misrepresenting the identity
of such machine-gun, firearm, rifle or shotgun
;
There are exceptions to allow "pistols and revolvers" for those with permits.

The ONLY NFA exception I could find was for military, police, and manufacturers;

Quote:
§ 265.20 Exemptions.
a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11,
265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:

1. Possession of any of the weapons, instruments, appliances or
substances specified in sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05
and 270.05 by the following:
(a) Persons in the military service of the state of New York when duly
authorized by regulations issued by the adjutant general to possess the
same.
(b) Police officers as defined in subdivision thirty-four of section
1.20 of the criminal procedure law.
(c) Peace officers as defined by section 2.10 of the criminal
procedure law.

(d) Persons in the military or other service of the United States, in
pursuit of official duty or when duly authorized by federal law,
regulation or order to possess the same.
(e) Persons employed in fulfilling defense contracts with the
government of the United States or agencies thereof when possession of
the same is necessary for manufacture, transport, installation and
testing under the requirements of such contract.


...

3. Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person to whom a license
therefor has been issued as provided under section 400.00 or 400.01 of
this chapter;

...

8. The manufacturer of machine-guns, firearm silencers, assault
weapons, large capacity ammunition feeding devices, disguised guns,
pilum ballistic knives, switchblade or gravity knives, billies or
blackjacks as merchandise, or as a transferee recipient of the same for
repair, lawful distribution or research and development, and the
disposal and shipment thereof direct to a regularly constituted or
appointed state or municipal police department, sheriff, policeman or
other peace officer, or to a state prison, penitentiary, workhouse,
county jail or other institution for the detention of persons convicted
or accused of crime or held as witnesses in criminal cases, or to the
military service of this state or of the United States; or for the
repair and return of the same to the lawful possessor or for research
and development.

And here are the police categories...

Quote:
§ 1.20 Definitions of terms of general use in this chapter.

...

34. "Police officer." The following persons are police officers:
(a) A sworn member of the division of state police;
(b) Sheriffs, under-sheriffs and deputy sheriffs of counties outside
of New York City;

...

More at link
Quote:
§ 2.10 Persons designated as peace officers.
Notwithstanding the provisions of any general, special or local law or
charter to the contrary, only the following persons shall have the
powers of, and shall be peace officers:
1. Constables or police constables of a town or village, provided such
designation is not inconsistent with local law.

...

More at link

I do hope some of this helps. All it did was confuse me...

Last edited by PTK; November 26, 2011 at 12:11 PM.
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Old November 27, 2011, 09:29 AM   #7
9ballbilly
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Yeah, me too.
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