The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 11, 2011, 12:47 PM   #1
freenokia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2011
Posts: 137
Thought ya'll might find this interesting

Thought ya'll might find this interesting

I had an interesting experience Monday. Was called to jury duty and got to stand 3ft away from a malice murder defendant. The guy was charged with killing a guy in a home invasion. (Through the grapevine) the victim was a suspected drug dealer. As we were dismissed for lunch recess and everyone was trying to pile out of one set of doors, I got stuck standing a few feet away from where he was still seated. I took those few moments to observe him. Young black kid, early 20's, close cropped hair, slender...no scowl, no visible tattoos, no signs of too much red meat. Looked like he could have just stood up and walked out into the pews, sat down and blended right in.

Just goes to show, you never really know.
freenokia is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 12:50 PM   #2
Stressfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,497
Takes all kinds, then again he might be "new." I save time by not profiling and am just suspicious of everyone
__________________
"The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank" - Montgomery Scott
Stressfire is offline  
Old November 11, 2011, 12:55 PM   #3
Unistat76
Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2011
Location: SE Michigan, near Detroit.
Posts: 40
You are 100% correct. I work in a jail and while there are plenty of people that come through that fit the stereotype for what ever crime they are charged with, there are plenty of folks that you probably wouldn't look at twice if they were in a movie line with you.

We had a young man (19 y.o.) brought in for 1st degree murder (hired hit) that fits the exact description of the guy you in jury for. Most congenial prisoner that was there all week too.

One thing I learned is that it is more often behavior that raises a red flag than looks.
__________________
There are basically two kinds of people in this world. Those that believe in the Moon Landing and those that don't.
http://unistat76.blogspot.com/
Unistat76 is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 04:39 AM   #4
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
you brought back memories of my jury duty(which I was dismissed from as a young adult//not chosen for duty). I was right near the guy, and he was a Dominican there for major cocaine trafficking and murder. He was eyeing everyone, and he had a translator.
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 11:51 AM   #5
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 1,701
I was called for circuit court jury duty not long ago. there's no way in creation that I should be sitting on a jury. Two letters got me out of it.
briandg is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 02:45 PM   #6
Jo6pak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2010
Location: West Coast...of WI
Posts: 1,429
Haven't you guys ever heard the phrase, "Never judge a book by it's cover."
It's a cliche for a reason.

Not everyone in a black hat is a bad guy, not all in white hats are good.
Please open you eyes...and your mind.
__________________
NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.
Jo6pak is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 03:09 PM   #7
freenokia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2011
Posts: 137
Quote:
Takes all kinds, then again he might be "new." I save time by not profiling and am just suspicious of everyone
Haha. What’s the saying…just cause I’m paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get me. Lol


Quote:
One thing I learned is that it is more often behavior that raises a red flag than looks.
That’s real. When they read off the charges he turned around and smiled at a couple of other young guys in the pews. Like he was proud or it was street credit or something. No remorse of what he had done or fear for what’s ahead of him…If that’s not a sociopath, I don’t know what is.
Quote:
you brought back memories of my jury duty(which I was dismissed from as a young adult//not chosen for duty). I was right near the guy, and he was a Dominican there for major cocaine trafficking and murder. He was eyeing everyone, and he had a translator.
That reminds me of a trip I took to the zoo 12-13years ago. There was an African lion that kept eyeing me and trying to **** on me. As far as I know he’s still there. Moral of the story: act like a badass all you want. Carbon steel don’t play.



Quote:
I was called for circuit court jury duty not long ago. there's no way in creation that I should be sitting on a jury. Two letters got me out of it.
They’re serious about it. There was a guy there who had had a wreck 3 days before. He claimed they gave him brain surgery the night of the wreck and that he was going to need some more…his mother was even there to verify it and they acted like they didn’t want to let him go.


Quote:
Haven't you guys ever heard the phrase, "Never judge a book by it's cover."
It's a cliche for a reason.

Not everyone in a black hat is a bad guy, not all in white hats are good.
Please open you eyes...and your mind.
It was definitely an ah ha moment, bruh. You keep telling yourself that and telling yourself that and telling yourself that, but sometimes a picture really is worth a thousand words.
freenokia is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 04:41 PM   #8
Jo6pak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2010
Location: West Coast...of WI
Posts: 1,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by freenokia
It was definitely an ah ha moment, bruh. You keep telling yourself that and telling yourself that and telling yourself that, but sometimes a picture really is worth a thousand words.
Umm, you stated in your OP that the he "Looked like he could have just stood up and walked out into the pews, sat down and blended right in."

So just what exactly am I supposed to be telling myself over and over?
You contradict yourself.

Yes, sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. Often those words are misleading or misread. Afterall, Jim Jones looked like a perfectly respectable individual. And Ted Nugent looks like a hooligan. But who would you rather share a cab with?
__________________
NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.
Jo6pak is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 05:42 PM   #9
freenokia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2011
Posts: 137
Quote:
Umm, you stated in your OP that the he "Looked like he could have just stood up and walked out into the pews, sat down and blended right in."

So just what exactly am I supposed to be telling myself over and over?
You contradict yourself.

Yes, sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. Often those words are misleading or misread. Afterall, Jim Jones looked like a perfectly respectable individual. And Ted Nugent looks like a hooligan. But who would you rather share a cab with?


…dang, defensive much!? Quit chewing me out for agreeing with you!
I was referring to myself in the 2ed person!!!!!!!

Still friends? *offers handshake*
freenokia is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 05:53 PM   #10
WANT A LCR 22LR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Posts: 389
" early 20's, close cropped hair, slender...no scowl, no visible tattoos, no signs of too much red meat. Looked like he could have just stood up and walked out into the pews, sat down and blended right in. "

Remember, he was likely cleaned up for court. Think about all the out of place " dressed up " people you see on the news in court.

Behavior is a pretty good indicator. Years ago I worked at a car lot and could get a very good read of someone's demeanor just by observing the car they drove, the way they got of said car, closed the door and walked across the lot. ( No, I was not a sales person where reading people is a art. )

A sticker on their car that has Calvin peeing on something is a big red flag that they are going to be a jerk.. . .

A couple of other examples are the guy that threw a cup of liquid at a basketball game that started a riot. He didn't present himself very well on TV.

And recently, a guy that got ejected from a baseball game ( in PA? ) . While being ushered out he purposely reached around a couple of guys and pushed a stadium official. The city police interceded, guy got even more belligerent , cops hit him on the shoulders with a nightstick ( didn't even faze him ) then was taken down by force. He then claimed " police brutality ". Judging by vid of the incident and his demeanor in a TV news interview, he is a jerk in real life too.
WANT A LCR 22LR is offline  
Old November 12, 2011, 11:48 PM   #11
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 1,701
Can I point out that rodney king showed up in court sober, washed and shaved, and wearing sweaters?

I have read that some of the thugs that are going into court are putting makeup over their tattoos, so they look squeaky clean and innocent when they go to court wearing their suits and ties.
briandg is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 06:00 AM   #12
Mobuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 1,969
Someone might get to sit on the jury of a home invasion/murder trial in which a 60YO man breached the door of a drug house and blew the snot out of several drug dealing no good SOB's. At the trial, he would be the picture of sobriety, cleanliness, and courtesy. You don't have to be a dirty lowlife to clean a drug house IMHO. If the victim really was a dealer, maybe you should give the defendant a medal.
Mobuck is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 11:13 AM   #13
Jo6pak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2010
Location: West Coast...of WI
Posts: 1,429
@freenokia= I didn't mean to come across as "chewing you out." I was just asking for clarification, in what seemd to me like a contradictiong statements.

Ironic, that in a thread discussing false conclusions, we misinterpreted each other

handshake accepted
__________________
NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.
Jo6pak is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 02:17 PM   #14
SecurityMike
Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2011
Location: Chicagoland, Il
Posts: 35
He probably had a lawyer with enough sense to make him clean up. I've spent a lot of time in the courthouse near me and I see a lot of young guys and gals going on trial wearing jeans and tshirts with shiny slogans. If the judge is used to seeing that all day, a clean shaven well dressed kid might make more of an impression (not defending criminals but they do have a right to try and impress the judge/jury).
__________________
"We have repeatedly held that one who is unlawfully assaulted and put in apparent danger of his life or of great bodily harm need not attempt to escape but may repel force with force..." PEOPLE v. BUSH
414 Ill. 441 (1953)
Supreme Court of Illinois.
SecurityMike is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 04:04 PM   #15
therealdeal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2010
Posts: 627
I wonder how much of a good impression the ones that come out in jump suits and shackles make?

I guess you could also be wheeled out in a straight jacket too
__________________
NRA Distinguished Life Member

"Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)
therealdeal is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 04:34 PM   #16
Buzzcook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 5,528
Please tell me the trial is over.
Buzzcook is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 05:17 PM   #17
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 1,701
I once went to court to testify. I sat there for hours listening to petty crime stuff. No jury, just the judge. One was an assault case; the whole clan of the cave bear showed up, and at one point, some toothless old hag took the stand, and ran on for about 5 minutes. Eventually, the judge aske her if she was even present. she wasn't, so he told her get the heck off of the witness stand. Not particarly politely, either.

about a dozen people there, not a one of them wearing clean clothes, just dirtbags.
briandg is offline  
Old November 13, 2011, 11:42 PM   #18
freenokia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2011
Posts: 137
Quote:
Remember, he was likely cleaned up for court. Think about all the out of place " dressed up " people you see on the news in court.
Good point.

Quote:
Behavior is a pretty good indicator. Years ago I worked at a car lot and could get a very good read of someone's demeanor just by observing the car they drove, the way they got of said car, closed the door and walked across the lot.
If the notion struck to write a 10,000 word post expounding on this^ I’d read it.

Quote:
I have read that some of the thugs that are going into court are putting makeup over their tattoos, so they look squeaky clean and innocent when they go to court wearing their suits and ties.
Criminal doesn’t always mean dumb, that’s for sure. I was rather impressed with his lawyer too until I saw him driving a brand new 4 door mercedes during lunch recess and realized he wasn’t a public defender... That might be exactly what happened, but when he turned around and smirked as they read off the murder charges it was like looking at pure evil.

Quote:
Someone might get to sit on the jury of a home invasion/murder trial in which a 60YO man breached the door of a drug house and blew the snot out of several drug dealing no good SOB's. At the trial, he would be the picture of sobriety, cleanliness, and courtesy. You don't have to be a dirty lowlife to clean a drug house IMHO. If the victim really was a dealer, maybe you should give the defendant a medal.
Anything can be romanticized, and anything can be vilified…all I know is what I saw- an empty blankness where there should be remorse, regret, and fear.

Quote:
@freenokia= I didn't mean to come across as "chewing you out." I was just asking for clarification, in what seemd to me like a contradictiong statements.

Ironic, that in a thread discussing false conclusions, we misinterpreted each other
I know, man. Sometimes when I get excited I get loud and dramatic for theatrical effect. Just hammin it up for the crowd
Quote:
handshake accepted


Quote:
He probably had a lawyer with enough sense to make him clean up…not defending criminals but they do have a right to try and impress the judge/jury
True…Having rights that cannot be taken away is what has made this country the greatest in the world!

Quote:
I wonder how much of a good impression the ones that come out in jump suits and shackles make?

I guess you could also be wheeled out in a straight jacket too
Lol. The trustees around here still wear stripes
Quote:
Please tell me the trial is over.
Idk. I didn’t get picked. That was last Monday and I think the trial started last Friday…do they have court on weekends??
Quote:
I once went to court to testify. I sat there for hours listening to petty crime stuff. No jury, just the judge. One was an assault case; the whole clan of the cave bear showed up, and at one point, some toothless old hag took the stand, and ran on for about 5 minutes. Eventually, the judge aske her if she was even present. she wasn't, so he told her get the heck off of the witness stand. Not particarly politely, either.

about a dozen people there, not a one of them wearing clean clothes, just dirtbags.
I think their cousins were there for this one. I bumped into the pregnant one on the way out.
freenokia is offline  
Old November 14, 2011, 08:44 PM   #19
Obambulate
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2011
Posts: 315
Want to get out of jury duty? When they ask you to speak, just say the two magic words:

JURY NULLIFICATION

They will usher you out of the court with great haste and dismiss you from your obligation quicker than you can say:

JURY NULLIFICATION

It doesn't matter what it means. The concept is so powerful the judge will not let you utter it in court more than once.

That's all you ever need to know about it.
Obambulate is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11478 seconds with 9 queries