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Old November 8, 2011, 07:58 AM   #26
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
Under the deadly force laws in Texas, you would be justified in shooting them. You do not have to outrun them, catch them and take a chance in a scuffle of them taking your guns from you and using them on you. Other States may be different.
Under Texas law, you MIGHT be justified in shooting, since Texas allows the use of deadly force to protect property in very limited circumstances. However, the Texas law allowing this has many qualifiers in it, one of which is that you reasonably believe the property cannot be recovered by any other means. Also under Texas law, the grand jury is going to be the one deciding whether you met those qualifiers.

In legal terms, what you describe may be legal depending on your state law. It is almost never a good idea tactically, whether legal or not.
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Old November 8, 2011, 08:05 AM   #27
TheNocturnus
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There is no right answer here. Don't chase after a BG for any stolen property, it can be replaced. Guns should be carried on your person, never in a bag or purse.

The best advice I have is to learn the laws where you live and get a defensive mindset in place. Run scenarios with your loved ones about situations just like this. Always plan for the worst, but hope for the best.
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Old November 8, 2011, 09:45 AM   #28
youngunz4life
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Quote:
There is no right answer here
I will say this guy better be quick and hope the husband isn't a fast draw because his butt is grass if he is tanked at the scene before he turns his back and starts running. I don't see the husband getting charged in that scenario(unless he is in Hawaii and by protocol they arrest you as procedure even if it seems justifiable). Probably only off-duty LEOs couples in Hawaii will have firearms on them anyways.

**it is making me wonder about that agent just arrested @ mcdonalds in Hawaii because they arrest automatically after a homicide(justifiable or not)?!
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Old November 8, 2011, 09:54 AM   #29
TexasJustice7
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Quote: BartholmewRoberts:
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Under Texas law, you MIGHT be justified in shooting, since Texas allows the use of deadly force to protect property in very limited circumstances. However, the Texas law allowing this has many qualifiers in it, one of which is that you reasonably believe the property cannot be recovered by any other means. Also under Texas law, the grand jury is going to be the one deciding whether you met those qualifiers.

In legal terms, what you describe may be legal depending on your state law. It is almost never a good idea tactically, whether legal or not.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My mind was made up on this subject when I went to the trouble to get my gun permit. I will not be a willing victim. If they stole my wallet, I intend to recover it even if I have to use deadly force. In Northeast Texas, I will take my chances if prosecuted and hire a lawyer like "Scrappy Holmes" to defend me which I recognize will not be cheap. I don't think the guy can get 15 feet away before I can shoot him if he grabs my wallet. Many other Texans that sit on jury's are like minded in Texas. There is no question that Texas law permits one to use deadly force to stop a fleeing felon. And if you don't stop him he will get away with the wallet, the ID cards, and all in such a case. I would come closer to letting him run off with a flat screen TV than my wallet. I know the cost of defending the case will be far greater, if I have to
pay to defend it. But even so, I would do it without hesitation. And if I were
convicted, then the State of Texas will have to feed me as well as take care of my disabled family member in a nursing home at a cost of about $50,000 just for that, not counting what it costs to keep me in jail. I am not saying that you should do the same thing, just saying what I will do if my wallet is grabbed and the robber is running off with it.
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Old November 8, 2011, 10:21 AM   #30
Stressfire
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Asked my CCW instructor a similar hypothetical question.

I was told - paraphrased- No, you cannot defend property with deadly force (in Ohio). Purse, wallet, car, television, etc. It the perp is getting away, and did not attempt to or succeed in harming you or a family member in the process, you cannot legally open fire. There is, however, no law regulating a good pistol-whipping (or similar "nonlethal" alternative) to subdue an escaping felon. You may, however, want to use a weapon with fixed sights
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Old November 8, 2011, 11:24 AM   #31
Hiker 1
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It all depends how much you are willing to risk for the contents of a wallet/purse even if the purse contains a pistol.

You are risking:
1. Killing a person over a small amount of property
2. Your freedom
3. Your family (as they will be without you while you're a guest of the state)
4. Financial ruin

Personally, I value family and freedom over a $400 .38 or some credit cards that will be canceled within 30 minutes.
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Old November 8, 2011, 12:12 PM   #32
TexasJustice7
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QUOTE: Biker1
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It all depends how much you are willing to risk for the contents of a wallet/purse even if the purse contains a pistol.

You are risking:
1. Killing a person over a small amount of property
2. Your freedom
3. Your family (as they will be without you while you're a guest of the state)
4. Financial ruin

Personally, I value family and freedom over a $400 .38 or some credit cards that will be canceled within 30 minutes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may cancel the credit cards within 10 minutes, but you may not stop
identity theft. If I am not mistaken, the two guys shot by Joe Horn, were also identity thieves, and they had a lot of trouble figuring out their true identity. And of course he had to defend it, but it got thown out by the grand jury.

I value my freedom too, but I am not too far from nursing home age now,
and my disabled family member will be a burden to the state when I am
compelled to stop taking care of her. That will cost them a 24/7 attendant for her that they have now without charge. And I am wiliing to stop them in Texas, but would think twice in other states. That care does not come free to the state, in that case, and I have no legal obligation to provide it. Not many old veterans are taking care of someone 24/7 like I do. And that is another reason that if I am carjacked I have to go for my gun. If they got away with her in the vehicle, she does not know to get out of the vehicle
in a hot parking lot if it were left there.

I have the habit of carrying my wallet in my front pocket, for this reason, it is very hard for a criminal to get it there. I have never lost but one in 40 years, and I learned from that. So it is likely if they grab for it, they will be shot on the scene, not running away with it.

I know when you leave the rural areas of Texas to the big cities, that the
DA's there are more likely to prosecute than out in the country. And currently my health care is provided by the VA, service connected. If I am
in jail, the county would have to provide it, at significant cost to the State.
So my wallet is off limits to criminals. I probably would not shoot them
though for stealing something out of my house if they got out without
being shot with it.
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Old November 8, 2011, 11:08 PM   #33
Hiker 1
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Interesting perspective, TexasJustice.
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