The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 26, 2011, 12:29 PM   #26
freenokia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 2011
Posts: 138
Quote:
On the bright side, you would still be alive so you could look for another job.

i'm sorry, but lol
freenokia is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 12:41 PM   #27
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 1,701
Agreed. losing a tenured professorship at non doctorate level whose only qualification is in a language or god forbid, first year level writing or math might as well be a death sentence in current times. It's the difference between prosperity, and spending the rest of your natural days saying "you want fries with that burger?"
briandg is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 12:55 PM   #28
BlackFeather
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 450
It's ridiculous to think that being unable to carry means you are going to die. People carry for the most unlikely scenario, because they can. There are other things to consider before you just start shooting.
__________________
"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men." - Miyamoto Musashi

[Insert random irrelevant religious quote here]
BlackFeather is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 02:45 PM   #29
farmerboy
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,343
yes it is true, But in a situation where someone walks in to someplace to kill someone or to injure them. But it is at a company whos policy is... no one is armed and do you believe in a situation like that, is your job probably the most important thing on your mind at that moment?
farmerboy is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 03:02 PM   #30
Stressfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,497
Eh, I can't carry at work either and, really, not having it is not the worst thing in the world.

Am I a bit more aware when I leave the building after a night I have to close? Yup, I even quick step to my car if my "spidey sense" starts tingling

Not really worried about being in the building without a weapon, plenty of items I use daily can suffice if needed - letter opener, bug spray, pen/pencil, yardstick, chair, heavy book (can double as body armor/shield) - if it is necessary, darn near anything in your immediate surrounding can be utilized as a weapon.
__________________
"The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank" - Montgomery Scott
Stressfire is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 03:06 PM   #31
brickeyee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2004
Posts: 3,342
Quote:
I just can't wrap my head around choosing to be defenseless and having the penalty for getting "caught" be less severe than prison.
Best,
Steve
Do you support a family?

While getting killed is about the worst outcome that can occur, it is still a very very rare event.

Perhaps not accepting a job in a place that increase the odds would be a better option than risking destroying your ability to support and care for your family.

I have had jobs that involved real danger of death.

I survived, but no longer am willing to take on those jobs.

I have a wife and family to support.

It paid very very well.
brickeyee is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 03:19 PM   #32
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 1,701
A pharmacist I know tells a story. His father, also a pharmacist, shot and killed a junkie who was robbing his personally owned community pharmacy. These really used to exist, until the corporate model took over the pharmacy business completely. His father, IIRC, eventually sold the place. Now, son works in a high position for a hospital in the pharmacy department, and chose that field specifically because he didn't want to kill junkies.
briandg is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 05:10 PM   #33
TheNocturnus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,093
I don't work anymore because of my back injury but if I did, I would carry regardless of what policy was.
__________________
My EDC:
Gun
Wallet
Brain (Use this one the most)
TheNocturnus is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 06:25 PM   #34
WANT A LCR 22LR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Posts: 389
" Remember two things:

1. Your workplace, including the parking lot, is private property and the owner of said property makes the rules. "

If the store is in a shopping mall / strip mall where parking is accessible to all, I doubt a specific store can make the rules for everyone. If having a gun in a common parking lot is legal for customers, it is legal for everyone since the store really does not own / or specifically rent the lot.

There are state / federal laws and there are company generated " laws " . The " company laws " may or may not have any real world enforceability.

If the OP parked across the street, could the store still search their car? Doubt it. How about if he took a taxi or bus, would the bus be subject to search after he got on it? ( yes I know he would not be leaving a gun in the bus when coming to work. )

And just who would be performing this search? Can the employer trash the car in the process of the search? ( Like a border check point where they literally tear the car apart if drugs are suspected. ) What if the employee didn't have the key to a glove box, truck cap or interior mounted lock box , would the store tear the car apart? Say the store calls the police,could the police do a warrantless search?
WANT A LCR 22LR is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 06:45 PM   #35
steveracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 123
You guys must have some amazing jobs.

I am not assuming that today is the day that I will need a gun to defend myself. I know the stats, too, and I agree that it's like the odds of getting hit by a meteor.
However, I can promise you that my wife and kids want me to live. More than that, they want me to ensure that THEY live. As someone who's survived a few gunfights, I will not willingly go unarmed at the rick of losing my job. It's a job, not my life.
For the poster who lost his job and wishes he died? Dude, really? You must have had the greatest job in the world, and your life outside of work must just suck.
steveracer is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 07:07 PM   #36
BlackFeather
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveracer
As someone who's survived a few gunfights, I will not willingly go unarmed at the rick of losing my job. It's a job, not my life.
If this is indeed true, exactly how did you survive?
__________________
"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men." - Miyamoto Musashi

[Insert random irrelevant religious quote here]
BlackFeather is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 07:16 PM   #37
Nnobby45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2004
Posts: 3,148
Quote:
Know what the law is,,,
Break it at your own peril.
Or, obey the law and be unarmed at your own peril.

There are those who are armed in violation of policy for reasons based on a horrible experience after which they vowed never to be unarmed and helpless again.


They feel they owe it to themselves and loved ones to stay alive---even if it means looking for another job.

Only governments run by left wing, progressive, gas bag liberals would, and do, disarm people and make them choose going to jail or to the hospital or morgue.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Last edited by Nnobby45; October 26, 2011 at 07:23 PM.
Nnobby45 is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 07:18 PM   #38
quepasakimosabe
Member
 
Join Date: October 10, 2011
Location: Camp Lejeune, NC
Posts: 79
the loss of a job affects more than just you. it affects your family. the poster who wished he had died may have lost his family, and or their trust and respect, and or visitation rights to see his children because of how he lost said job. To some that can be devastating, to others they hold life above all else...its all relative to what is most important to you. weight the risks vs rewards, many decisions in life can be put into this simple concept and if you can look at ALL possible outcomes usualy one choice becomes clear...to the eyes of the beholder (all choices made may not be the same, because different views amongst people)

if you can step back and look at situations objectively in regards to risk vs reward you should do pretty well in the end.

example:

carry or not to carry at work.

Carry at work

loss of job if discovered
if you loose job how easy is it to replace ect
less risk of loss of life at work
family unit stay whole, unless loss of job tears apart family.

Carry in car

less chance of being found (unlikely they will search)
if robbed in store gun in car is useless
car is safer but what if its stolen of broken into...when the police report is filed and the employer notices a firearm on the missing stuff inventory they can terminate...

leave it at home

more risk of loos of life at work
almost zero risk to terminate based on carry principle, they can still fire you cause you suck at you job...
family still supported.

there are many variables and outcomes each with its own possible set of outcomes and variables from there. try to determine what all these are and weight them against what risks are associated with them and determine the best course of action(for you). There is a whole hell of a lot of thinking invloved but you should be able to come up with a choice at the end. I try to do this all the time but it requires one to slow down and be more deliberate, which at 25 is hard to do sometimes.
__________________
To sum it up: Somewhere there is a TRUE BELIEVER training, he will not stop in his mission, he knows only the cause. What have you done today? For your brothers at arms, friends, family, your country, yourself?
quepasakimosabe is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 07:26 PM   #39
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
Quote:
I work on a Navy base, and of course cannot carry my personal weapons on base. If it were "policy" I would do it anyway, but it's "law".
SO? Doesn't seem to stop you whether it is law or policy - thus making you appear to be hypocritical in your thoughts and deeds

Simple - the place says no guns - carrying means that much to you - go work elsewhere

It really IS that simple
oneounceload is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 07:35 PM   #40
steveracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 123
Carrying on base means JAIL, not FIRED

Federal property my friend. I will not risk JAIL and carry illegally there. I willingly risked getting FIRED by carrying in places where it was "not allowed by corporate policy". WAAAAYYY different.
I am not a small man, but I would be currency in prison. I can get another job.
I said I DO NOT carry on base (unless of course I'm carrying in the line of duty) but I carried all the time at previous jobs where it wasn't "allowed".
The restaurant and movie theaters I worked at were not going to toss me in prison for carrying against their BS policy.
steveracer is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 07:45 PM   #41
Steel Talon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 30, 2007
Posts: 138
unless your vehicle is subject to search as a condition of employment.

Then op sec is mandatory. Keep your mouth shut about what may or may not be in your car. And never allow your employer to search it.

It's always a smart idea to mount a security safe in your car under a seat to hold any valuables you may have while it sits in parking.
Steel Talon is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 08:47 PM   #42
Dwight55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,559
Sphawley, . . . my employer said we could have them in our vehicles if we were going to a range after work.

I went often enough to make it work.

But, . . . . and this is the important part, . . . . every time I got in my vehicle, I was armed, . . . and that is especially important when you are going back to a building that has been standing unoccupied for the day.

I never really worried about the "stop and rob" or other scenarios "on the way home" so to speak. My worst fear was to come home to a burglary in progress and interrupt an armed intruder.

Fortunately it never happened, . . . but that is still a good 33% of the reason I carry.

Your best advice is simply call up a lawyer, . . . make an appointment, . . . ask him flat out what the Nevada law says, . . . and follow it.

May God bless,
Dwight
__________________
www.dwightsgunleather.com
If you can breathe, . . . thank God!
If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!
Dwight55 is offline  
Old October 27, 2011, 05:40 AM   #43
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
Right wing governments have been known to disarm the general population, too. What you rarely have are progressive governments. However, I only suggest obeying the law. It will astound your friends.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old October 27, 2011, 06:04 AM   #44
CajunBass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2005
Location: Chancellorsville, Virginia
Posts: 3,408
Every job I've ever had has had a rule against carrying weapons to work, and included the parking lot in the definition of "work." That's been a lot of years. Not one time in 40 something years, has an employer EVER asked to search my vehicle. I have never heard of any of my fellow employee's being asked to allow their vehicle to be searched. Not once.

I'd put the gun in the glove box and lock the doors and go on about my business. If you're worried that someone will break into your car, put a lock box in the car. Then lock the car and go on about your business.

Not asked? Don't tell.

Now if you happen to work for someone who routinely searches vehicles, take a different approach.
__________________
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 (NKJV)
CajunBass is offline  
Old October 27, 2011, 06:22 AM   #45
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,383
Quote:
I just can't wrap my head around choosing to be defenseless and having the penalty for getting "caught" be less severe than prison.
Best,
Steve
I see Steve is another person who believes being without a gun means being defenseless. I am sad for you, Steve.

Quote:
Federal property my friend. I will not risk JAIL and carry illegally there. I willingly risked getting FIRED by carrying in places where it was "not allowed by corporate policy". WAAAAYYY different.
I am not a small man, but I would be currency in prison. I can get another job.
So being dead is better than being in prison. Well, at least you have your standards.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is online now  
Old October 27, 2011, 08:01 AM   #46
steveracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 123
This is maddening, and I will have to leave it you

smarter folks than me.
I am active duty, and I work on base. I won't carry there because A: I have access to weapons/ammo at work. B: It is a felony to bring my CCW on base.
Before I joined, (I was 24 in boot camp) I worked in several jobs that "did not allow" me to have a gun on my person. I did it anyway.
I do not feel defenseless without a gun, but I do recognize the limitations of unarmed defense.
For those of you who refuse to carry because you don't want your boss angry at you: that's crazy.
For those of you who carry in defiance of company policy, I applaud you.
As for providing for my family, I do so very well, thank you very much, and have every confidence that I could continue to if I were fired from my current gig.
Since this is such a difficult and foreign concept to some of you, I politely bow out.

Last edited by steveracer; October 27, 2011 at 08:07 AM.
steveracer is offline  
Old October 27, 2011, 08:10 AM   #47
Stressfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,497
Quote:
So being dead is better than being in prison. Well, at least you have your standards
So who looks after/provides for the 'fam while one is doing a federal bid for carrying on federal property?
__________________
"The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank" - Montgomery Scott
Stressfire is offline  
Old October 27, 2011, 12:36 PM   #48
dpdogwood1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2011
Posts: 3
firearms at work

To let ALL of you know, if you work at ANY type of chemical plant, refinery, or something like those, 911 stopped you from being able to carry anywhere, on your person or in your vehicle, ANYWHERE on the company property! It is not a matter of their choice or rules, it's National Security Law.
dpdogwood1 is offline  
Old October 27, 2011, 12:45 PM   #49
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
Quote:
I worked in several jobs that "did not allow" me to have a gun on my person. I did it anyway.

OK, so the rules do not apply to YOU - how nice and convenient

and hypocritical
oneounceload is offline  
Old October 27, 2011, 02:26 PM   #50
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneounceload View Post
OK, so the rules do not apply to YOU - how nice and convenient

and hypocritical
You're fighting a losing battle my friend.
People have come to define honesty and integrity however it fits their behavior.
They justify dishonesty by whatever reason compelled them to be dishonest and will still claim integrity.
Yes, we're all dishonest. Yes, we all sometimes lack integrity. Some of us admit it and try harder. Others justify it.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14343 seconds with 9 queries