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Old October 13, 2011, 11:03 PM   #1
stonewall50
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No Campus Carry Is a Bad Thing (GM EDIT)

I know that this is a touchy topic in a lot of places. I found myself in a situation where I REALLY wanted my gun today, but being a law abiding citizen I didn't have it because of the 5 minutes I had to spend on campus picking up a friend.

Short version we were approached by a van with no windows asking us to buy something. I was glad my friend got into the car as quickly as she did, but the men in the van clearly didn't realise I was with her and had pulled up on her side of the vehicle. Thinking back I see how dangerous this could have been. I actually remember putting my hand back to where I normally would have 13 9mm hollowpoints only to find none.

Does anyone know if there is any bill in the making in Florida that might allow the storage of firearms in locked vehicles while on campus? Even if it is by license holders only?
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Old October 13, 2011, 11:15 PM   #2
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Do not know of any bill. When i need to go to campus, but have a gun in my truck, I just park on the public streets that run next to and through the campus. I wish I could just carry but so far that is the best solution I have.
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Old October 14, 2011, 06:13 AM   #3
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Zincwarrior went to school at what is called an "urban university" that happened to be in the worst part of town. At the time there was no such thing as CHL in the state much less on campus. About half the night school was armed, expecially after some incidents occurred.
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Old October 14, 2011, 07:42 AM   #4
Don P
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Quote:
but being a law abiding citizen I didn't have it because of the 5 minutes I had to spend on campus picking up a friend.
How would this read if things went the other way with you and possibly you friend laying on a cold steel table?
In light of "just picking up a friend" who but you would have known that you were/are armed? Would rather be carried by 6 instead on being judged by 12? I understand the need and want to be law abiding and its all up to personal choice.

As far as I know not at this time with regars to a bill about campus carry. legislative session is starting up again january 2012 and you can follow bills being introduced and in the legislature here, www.flsenate.gov
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Last edited by Don P; October 14, 2011 at 07:48 AM.
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Old October 14, 2011, 08:32 AM   #5
meatgrinder42
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Quote:
How would this read if things went the other way with you and possibly you friend laying on a cold steel table?
In light of "just picking up a friend" who but you would have known that you were/are armed? Would rather be carried by 6 instead on being judged by 12? I understand the need and want to be law abiding and its all up to personal choice.
And if he had pulled his weapon he would have been arrested, fined, probably thrown in jail and would never be able to have a firearm again. Carrying a weapon in a school zone/campus is a federal offense. You can't even have a firearm within 500 feet of a school (in Wisconsin anyway) unless you're driving by or you live across the street.

The man made the right choice by not carrying. And being in a vehicle, I think your best choice would have been to lock the doors and start rolling.
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Old October 14, 2011, 09:39 AM   #6
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Carrying a weapon in a school zone/campus is a federal offense.
Are you not able to have it in your car on campus as long as you don't get out with it?

Presumably, if you are not exiting your vehicle, then you are not on campus, you are passing through. "Campus carry" is actually carrying it on your person walking to class or some such.
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Old October 14, 2011, 09:57 AM   #7
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1. Even in common usage - avoid nasty words.

2. Some folks are saying bad legal things. Don't announce you break the law. Don't overgeneralize federal laws and be specific to your state.

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Old October 14, 2011, 11:15 AM   #8
Don P
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Quote:
And if he had pulled his weapon he would have been arrested, fined, probably thrown in jail and would never be able to have a firearm again. Carrying a weapon in a school zone/campus is a federal offense. You can't even have a firearm within 500 feet of a school (in Wisconsin anyway) unless you're driving by or you live across the street.
Federal offense no, State offense possibly yes.
Did I say pulled his weapon? No I did not. Why are you assuming he would pull his weapon???
Pulling his weapon in the scenario "HE" described in his OP is considered brandishing a firearm and assuming it happened would have been done so in trying to gain leverage in a dispute.( a no-no in FLA law)
Rightfully so he should and would have been jailed. I have to say from the OP that pulling a gun in the situation "HE" describes, is/would be a very bad choice. Jumping the gun, NON THREAT situation at the moment.

Quote:
1. Even in common usage - avoid nasty words.

2. Some folks are saying bad legal things. Don't announce you break the law. Don't overgeneralize federal laws and be specific to your state.

Thanks.
Thanks Glenn for your input. like I stated personal choice as to how one wishes to conduct ones self.
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Old October 14, 2011, 11:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
I have to say from the OP that pulling a gun in the situation "HE" describes, is/would be a very bad choice.
Indeed it would have been. But I believe OP was wishing he had his pistol had the van guys been forceful instead of just creepy.

To clarify bad legal things: In Ohio, while "carry" on campus is not permitted at state universities & colleges, students are permitted to have them in their vehicles. To the best of my understanding "no gun" signs apply to buildings only. Even with regard to grade schools & high schools, as long as you do not exit your vehicle, you can have your weapon in the car
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Old October 14, 2011, 12:43 PM   #10
Don H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatgrinder42
Carrying a weapon in a school zone/campus is a federal offense.
That statement is somewhat sweeping. In Utah, it is entirely legal, both on the federal level and on the state level, for me to carry my firearm, open or concealed, in a public school, kindergarten through university. Some other states allow variations on school carry in compliance with state and federal laws.
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Old October 14, 2011, 12:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don P
Pulling his weapon in the scenario "HE" described in his OP is considered brandishing a firearm and assuming it happened would have been done so in trying to gain leverage in a dispute.( a no-no in FLA law)
To be more specific, here's the law you are (apparently) referring to. I marked part of it in bold.

Quote:
FL Title XLVI, 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms. -- If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
If he used the gun to prevent a life-threatening criminal assault, that would almost certainly be a case of "necessary self-defense." So even if he did not need to fire, he would still be okay under this law. The only thing the law prohibits is threatening someone with a weapon when it's not necessary for self-defense.

Obviously, this particular incident did not go that far. But if it had, he would not have had to fire the gun in order to be on the right side of the law. All he needed to do was to be using it in "necessary self-defense."

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Old October 14, 2011, 02:56 PM   #12
stonewall50
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Sorry Mods. Was expressing my feelings.

Anyway my STATE is Florida. I didn't carry onto campus in the course of going to my friend's place. If I am stopped and the not so nice police officers decide to search me I am in violation and could face felony charges. The police here are known to be very VERY unorthodox. I am not going to hide my gun and violate the law. I do frequently carry my firearm and I actually plan my routes so as to avoid all university property. I even make sure I won't pull over into a University parking lot by mistake.

I will add that I was NOT on campus when said incident happened. I was off campus. I had to go through campus though in order to go with my friend. Hence no carry.
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Old October 14, 2011, 03:21 PM   #13
aarondhgraham
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Still can't carry it to work,,,

I work at Oklahoma State University

Oklahoma recently changed their law so I can at least leave it secured in my car on the campus parking lot,,,
So I purchased one of the lock boxes that cables to your car seat brackets,,,
I pull into the lot and park, then lock it up and go to work.

I believe this came about as an extension of state law forbidding employers to ban guns in their private parking lots,,,
Conoco-Phillips fired several people who then sued them in return and miraculously won their case.

It did get a bit tense when an employee saw me transfer the gun from my briefcase to the lock-box,,,
She called the Campus Police who were all for arresting me on the spot,,,
Good thing I had a copy of the statute that said "...any university".

Normal schools from elementary to high school still have the restriction,,,
With the one exception being you can have your carry weapon while you drop off or pick up your kid,,,
The bugaboo there is you can't exit your car, park and leave the gun, or even turn your car motor off while on campus.

The most recent change in the law (which isn't in the website yet) is for the Career Tech campuses,,,
Faculty, staff, and students who can legally own/transport a firearm may leave it secured in their car in the parking areas.

Oklahoma has two completely different school systems for academic and vocational schools,,,
In most cases the campuses are completely separate from each other and often in different parts of town,,,
Our Career Tech campuses have a high percentage of adult students so this was a real victory for RKBA in Oklahoma.

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Old October 14, 2011, 03:35 PM   #14
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See those folks in the vans all the time - trying to sell some steaks or something else - they are harmless - do not go crazy trying to imagine the worst death scenario everytime you do not have your finger on the trigger or you will drive yourself crazy - be aware, be smart, and also realize not everyone else is out to kill you
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Old October 14, 2011, 03:50 PM   #15
hermannr
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Remember, carry restrictions are usually only on K-12 schools. Most colleges have no-gun rules, not laws, and where there is an actual law, I would read it very carefully to see if it applies to the general public in public areas (a la parking lots)

In WA state, the Universities and colleges (except one Community College) have restrictions on students, UW has restrictions on students and staff, but they cannot legally restrict the general public in public areas because State Law does not give them the right to do so.

What I would suggest, if you are in FL, you carefully read both your firearms law and your school board of Regents enabling law. Remember, the school regents cannot restrict the public, there RULES only effect those in tehir employ or students.

I just read your law...and as I am not a lawyer this is not advice...but from what I read, it is law, not a rule of the board of regents, but it appears to be concerned within a building, not on the open to the public property as it says "facility" in one part of the law, specifically stating what is allowed for a student and staff to carry for SD purposes, and what they cannot...

I see nothing in the FL law that would make me think I could not have a SD weapon on my person, with a FL, or recognized by FL permit, in a college parking lot, especially if I was in my car. Specifically see 790.251 which specifically addresses parking lots.

BTW: if I am wrong, it may be a misdemeanor not a felony. Read your law, specifically where and where not you can carry with a permit. Also, I have found that the best why to find "legislative intent" is to ask your legislator.
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Old October 17, 2011, 08:31 AM   #16
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I found this online, don't know if it's worth much of anything. I saw it and thought of this thread.

Public Law 104-208 Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act For Fiscal Year 1997
Sec. 101(b) Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 1997
Section 657, Gun-Free School Zone.
THE GIST: Congress was rebuffed in its attempt to exercise police powers at the state level by the U.S. Supreme Court, when the court declared the 1991 Gun-Free School Zone law unconstitutional, in 1995. That law was reenacted, to the surprise of many observers, as an unnoticed add-on to a 2,000-page federal spending bill, in a form essentially identical to the one the Supreme Court overturned.

The law makes it a federal crime to knowingly have a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school. An exemption is granted to anyone willing to register with the government for a specified license to carry the firearm (most concealed-carry permits would qualify, most hunting licenses would not).

The prohibition does not apply to: 1-Firearms while on private property that is not part of the school grounds; 2-Any firearm that is unloaded and in a locked container; 3-Any firearm unloaded and locked in a firearms rack on a motor vehicle; 4-Possession of a firearm for use in an approved school program; 5-Possession under a contract with the school; 6-Possession by law enforcement officers in an official capacity; and 7-An unloaded firearm, while crossing school premises to public or private land open to hunting, if crossing the grounds is authorized by the school.

Quote:
Did I say pulled his weapon? No I did not. Why are you assuming he would pull his weapon???
I assumed he was going to pull because in the OP he said, "I REALLY wanted my gun". I read this thinking that he wished he had his firearm because he intended to pull it. Obviously I misinterpreted what he said.
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Old October 17, 2011, 07:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
And if he had pulled his weapon he would have been arrested, fined, probably thrown in jail and would never be able to have a firearm again. Carrying a weapon in a school zone/campus is a federal offense.
The term "campus" means college on up. Federal rules do not apply there - the federal "school zone ban" applies to K-12 only.
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Old October 18, 2011, 01:25 AM   #18
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you're at college, stoner or whomever has hand-me-down van pimped out in the inside back for saturday night girlfriends, he is 20 and wants you to buy him beer? Are you sure you needed the CCW? so far all I have heard is they looked at your girlfriend as she got in the car. is there a longer version?
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Old October 18, 2011, 02:17 AM   #19
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Carrying on campus with a CCW is a second degree misdemeanor in Florida. I think there's a $500 fine and maybe a few weeks in the local jail if you're caught. You may want to double check on that.

And they were probably just some skeevy guys trying to sell a stereo system that "fell off the back of a truck". Hold your fire.
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Old October 18, 2011, 06:49 PM   #20
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came back for more but thread seems to be dying // I was just crackin a joke last post so I apologize if I came off as less than sympathetic. I am interested in the longer version, but either way I can understand how it causes issues(and annoyances) to not have access to your CCW due to college rules.

In a way college is like the old west. I never really met anyone while I was in college(though I am sure it happens) that was interested in dealing with the police. I mean assaults, fights, drunks, druggees, dealers, and all living by some "code" that persisted since highschool. Where else can you go besides prison and get in bloodied fistfights and such without worrying about being arrested?
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