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Old October 11, 2011, 10:09 AM   #51
Brian Pfleuger
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Even though we are from different states and our banking exploits are separated by a few years, it seems WVsig's experience very closely matches mine. I suspect that the boxes and procedures are very similar everywhere.

On the matter of direct prohibition in the contract, I consider it to be a matter of honesty/integrity/ethics. If the contract says "No" and you sign it and do it anyway, it may not be a legal issue but it certainly shows a lack of integrity.
Whether or not "you" (any given individual) care about that, is for your own conscience to decide.
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Old October 11, 2011, 10:50 AM   #52
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I am not aware of any law that has a blanket prohibition against firearms in banks. Conceale Carry, open carry, for purposes of committing a crime, loaded - yes, these may all be restricted.

Find me a law that states it is illegal to enter a bank with an inconspicuously cased, unloaded firearm with the intent to place it in a safe deposit box. I doubt one exists. In the absence of any such law AND if the lease doesn't expressly prohibit it, it is completely legal to place an unloaded firearm in the safe deposit box.

Don't expect the lease to itemize everything you can put in the box. It will only mention things that can't be placed in the box.

One other thing - when you die (and you will die) and if the person you designate to be your executor can't find the key, the lock will be drilled and very likely a bank representative will sit with your exector to take an inventory of the safe deposit box.
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Old October 11, 2011, 01:55 PM   #53
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One other thing - when you die (and you will die) and if the person you designate to be your executor can't find the key, the lock will be drilled and very likely a bank representative will sit with your exector to take an inventory of the safe deposit box.
Not correct. A bank rep will drill the box and hand over the box to the executor/executrix or adminstrator/administratrix. The bank has no business inventorying the box. The bank would not know what was in there and would not be involved in the process of distributing it.

Also if another party is on the box like your wife, sister, mother, brother etc.... they will simply become the owner of the box. Again rep from the bank will not be involved in any way except to change the paperwork.
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Old October 11, 2011, 04:14 PM   #54
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Not correct. A bank rep will drill the box and hand over the box to the executor/executrix or adminstrator/administratrix. The bank has no business inventorying the box. The bank would not know what was in there and would not be involved in the process of distributing it.
Well, I've been there and done that - the bank rep was there during the inventory. Maybe they weren't supposed to be there. Don't know....but the bank rep was there and took her own inventory. As far as I know, there is no law that prohibits a bank officer from viewing the contents of a safe deposit box when it has to be drilled/opened.
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Old October 11, 2011, 04:21 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skans
Find me a law that states it is illegal to enter a bank with an inconspicuously cased, unloaded firearm with the intent to place it in a safe deposit box. I doubt one exists. In the absence of any such law AND if the lease doesn't expressly prohibit it, it is completely legal to place an unloaded firearm in the safe deposit box.
See the third link in post #43

NC law defines "carry" as having a firearm "about" the body. That would probably include conveying it in a briefcase, "murse," or Daytimer.
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Old October 11, 2011, 04:38 PM   #56
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peetzakilla

Quote:
Bank employees don't just "get curious" and start opening boxes. Depending on the bank and type of boxes, there MIGHT be ONE master key that will open the boxes. It is tightly controlled and accessible to ONE person. In some cases, the master key AND your key are BOTH required to open the box and there is only ONE of your key... It's expensive to lose that key as the bank must drill out the lock to open the box.
the key word in your post was, sometimes.

I know my bank is oldschool. I like that, as I am avoiding many fees I see in the news these days. I wasn't friends with, but I knew a girl(she was one of those speakers yrs after the fact that would speak to youth) that used to steal quesrters out of the bank's quarter rolls as an employee. Can you believe nickels, dimes, and even pennies too? Highly unorthodox, odd, and yet she did it. banks just like any profession(LE comes to mind), has bad apples or people that pass thru the ranks less than honorably+are weeded out.

A lunchbreak might have nothing to do with it(as you had mentioned), like I said earlier...they might not steal it but I wouldn't be surprised if people were nosey sometimes. Not every bank is hightech enough for the masterkey. If and when they want to, someone can get 'hemmed up' because they just make an excuse as to how they happened upon the firearm and use some law such that Aguilar mentioned. Just a thought as to the fact that I am still undecided as to whether it is ok to lock up the firearm because I am not sure if it is legal(leaning towards that it is). I will say that I agreed with mike irwin's post 100%
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Old October 11, 2011, 04:44 PM   #57
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I know my bank is oldschool. I like that, as I am avoiding many fees I see in the news these days. I wasn't friends with, but I knew a girl(she was one of those speakers yrs after the fact that would speak to youth) that used to steal quesrters out of the bank's quarter rolls as an employee. Can you believe nickels, dimes, and even pennies too? Highly unorthodox, odd, and yet she did it. banks just like any profession(LE comes to mind), has bad apples or people that pass thru the ranks less than honorably+are weeded out.

A lunchbreak might have nothing to do with it(as you had mentioned), like I said earlier...they might not steal it but I wouldn't be surprised if people were nosey sometimes. Not every bank is hightech enough for the masterkey. If and when they want to, someone can get 'hemmed up' because they just make an excuse as to how they happened upon the firearm and use some law such that Aguilar mentioned. Just a thought as to the fact that I am still undecided as to whether it is ok to lock up the firearm because I am not sure if it is legal(leaning towards that it is). I will say that I agreed with mike irwin's post 100%
What does any of that have to do with the subject at hand? The reality is that 2 keys are needed to open up a safe deposit box. Yours and the banks master key.

How is a employee supposed to open it without your key without drilling the box? There is nothing high tech about a master key. Your ignorance on the subject is apparent.
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Old October 11, 2011, 05:46 PM   #58
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How is a employee supposed to open it without your key without drilling the box? There is nothing high tech about a master key.
I beg to differ. Are you saying that my safe deposit box can't be opened without me? That is in essence what you stated. It is more like only my key or an exact replica, master key, skeleton key, etc can open it as well. It's not Fort Knox. Also mentioned, not all banks have the same policies...sort of the point of the thread.
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Old October 11, 2011, 06:00 PM   #59
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I beg to differ. Are you saying that my safe deposit box can't be opened without me? That is in essence what you stated. It is more like only my key or an exact replica, master key, skeleton key, etc can open it as well. It's not Fort Knox. Also mentioned, not all banks have the same policies...sort of the point of the thread.
You are wrong on the facts. You do not seem to understand. You come in and rent a safe deposit box. In most cases you get 2 keys. They are the only 2 keys in existence for that lock. One of your keys and my master key are both needed to open the box. Each key turns its own tumbler.

If you loose one of the keys then when you surrender the box the bank drills the box because they cannot duplicate the key. I have had a safe deposit box for over 15 years. I work in a bank. I have never seen a safe deposit box that did not require 2 keys.

I work with diebold who installs and maintains the lock. They cannot make a new key. We cannot make a new key. Another company cannot make a new key. If you have the only 2 keys which can open your side of the box and both tumbers need to be turned in order for it to open how can a bank employee open it without your presence? The only way to gain access to the box without your key is to drill it.

There are some boxes which only require only your key but again the bank does not have a copy and cannot duplicate it. The bank rep takes your key and opens the box and hands it to you without ever opening it.

You are wrong on the facts. Introducing fictitious straw-man arguments do not constitute a logical argument. Yes anything is possible but you are arguing from the absurd and treating it like the probable. Again it demonstrates ignorance of the facts. The entire point of a safe deposit box is secure and controlled entry by you and your designated representatives. Stop arguing about something you know nothing about.

Notice the 2 key holes.





This one has only 1 but again these types have no master key.

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Last edited by WVsig; October 11, 2011 at 07:12 PM.
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Old October 11, 2011, 06:24 PM   #60
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngunz4life View Post
the key word in your post was, sometimes.

Strange that would be the key word... Since I didn't use the word.

See WVsig's posts. He is exactly right. Bank employees getting into your SD box is a virtual impossibility.

There is either one key, and only you have it and no one else, or there is your key that only you have and no one else has it AND a master key AND the box requires BOTH key to open it.
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Old October 11, 2011, 09:17 PM   #61
Mike Irwin
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If it were possible for the bank to get into your box without you, through use of some master key, why, then, when search warrants are served, do the locks have to be drilled?


"If you loose one of the keys then when you surrender the box the bank drills the box because they cannot duplicate the key."

That's now how it was explained to me when I only turned back one key. I asked specifically about that. The lock is rekeyed and the company maintaining them makes new keys on the spot. It's not destroyed.
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Old October 11, 2011, 09:48 PM   #62
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If you lose one key, they rekey it and charge you about $10. If you lose both keys, they have to drill it (expensive; maybe $100) Why would they drill it if they can just open it? But they cannot open it without one of your 2 keys.
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Old October 12, 2011, 03:07 AM   #63
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If you have one of the keys you can find a locksmith to duplicate your key. Most are flat keys for lever tumblers. I have even picked them but drilling is simpler.

Here is where they sell the blanks http://www.zipflockco.com/images/Dieboldk.pdf
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Old October 12, 2011, 07:17 AM   #64
Mike Irwin
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Exactly, Armsmaster.

Hell, when I found that I couldn't find my other key for my one box, I gave serious consideration to making one. But, I said to hell with it and ate the $5 charge.

My box at the bank in the town where I grew up was in the old bank of boxs. They came from the original bank building and had been made in 1902 for the bank that was built in 1903.

When the bank burned in the 1960s the boxes were in the vault and were fine, and were moved to the new bank building.

The new boxes they added with the building of the latest building (1997) also use the simple flat key.
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Old October 12, 2011, 07:55 AM   #65
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Let me just outline one more problem with using safe deposit boxes for guns.

1. 2011 - You decide to put a Bren 10, Sphinx AT2000, and a 1967 Korth Revolver in a Safe Deposit Box. You are 50 years old.

2. On your 80th Birthday, President Chelsea Clinton signs a bill requiring all semi-auto handguns be registered as NFA or turned in for destruction within 30 days. You don't think much about it - you're more concerned about getting that new hip from Government Health you've been waiting for over 10 years now that has become necrotic.

3. 2051 - You live to the ripe old age of 90 - dying from a chronic hip infection. You leave your son, Jeff, the key to your safe deposit box and name his your executor. Jeff goes into the bank, which merged with BOA and BOA was taken over by the government in 2021 making it BoUSA. Where it used to be optional for a bank to inventory all decedent safe deposit boxes, President Sasha Obama signed a bill requiring all government owned banks to review the contents of safe deposit boxes for illegal guns, gold, diamonds, platinum, palladium and other banned substances. Her zero-tolerance law requires ANYONE in possession of such items to pay a $1,000,000,000 fine and serve no less than 10 years in a MexAmerican prison.

By by guns. By by savings. By by Jeff.

The moral of the story is - if it's worth keeping, don't entrust it to a anyone for safe keeping other than self and kin.
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Old October 12, 2011, 07:59 AM   #66
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I had a post last night, but I am guessing I forgot to send when I helped w/the kids because I doubt it was deleted. Anyways, thanx for the replies&knowledge. A warrant won't protect you. To the bank person, can someone put a firearm in the box or is that only if he keeps his mouth shut?
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Old October 12, 2011, 08:29 AM   #67
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...pay a $1,000,000,000 fine
At least, adjusted for inflation, the fine isn't much. (I never liked Jeff anyway)
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Old October 12, 2011, 08:46 AM   #68
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OK, I think at the point where we drop completely into "futurospeculation" it's a clear indication that the thread has passed its zenith and is flaming out rapidly.

Closed.
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