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Old September 30, 2011, 06:19 PM   #1
Bill Calley
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1911 in 9mm in Production or Single Stack???

Is a 1911 in 9mm a persona-non-grata in both the Production and Single Stack divisions? (BTW, is there even minor in SS?? )?

I'd really hate to be forced to shoot Limited just because my gun was a 9mm single action (and with only a nine round 1911 mag, I would be absolutely slaughtered in Limited )...

-Bill
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Old September 30, 2011, 07:50 PM   #2
Jim Watson
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Well, you can't shoot it in Production because it is not double action.
You can shoot it in Single Stack at minor PF and even load an extra round or two. Look up the rules.
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Old September 30, 2011, 09:58 PM   #3
Bill Calley
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Thanks Jim, you have put my mind at ease: the rules do state that 9mm's are allowed in Single Stack:

http://www.uspsa.org/rules/1911_Single_Stack.pdf
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Old October 1, 2011, 07:26 AM   #4
lmccrock
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The other option of course is Limited 10. Now, just because it is legal does not mean you would be competitive. A 9mm 1911 would be most competitive in SS.
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Old October 2, 2011, 11:47 AM   #5
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I used my 9mm 1911 with its 9-rd mags in Single Stack, Limited 10, Limited, and Open.

I did not win. BFD. I had a great time.
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Old October 3, 2011, 08:04 PM   #6
MGMorden
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9mm in Single Stack is kind of an interesting proposition. You basically balance the tradeoff of capacity vs major scoring, since Minor in SS allows 10 rounds per mag vs 8 per mag with Major PF.

There are a lot of classifiers and such where there are mandatory reloads that will negate that advantage, but on longer stages it can help out.
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Old October 4, 2011, 03:17 PM   #7
Don P
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Minor in SS would be the way to go IMO thus only needing 4 mags and a Barney mag giving you 41 rounds per stage.
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Old October 4, 2011, 03:45 PM   #8
Bill Calley
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Don P: "Barney mag giving you 41 rounds per stage".

A "Barney mag" What's that?

-Bill
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Old October 4, 2011, 06:09 PM   #9
Jim Watson
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Barney Mag: You are allowed to load with 10+1 in Single Stack Minor. It is convenient to have an old magazine with one or a few rounds in it so you can load the chamber and then insert a full magazine to Make Ready with less handling of gun and ammunition.
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Old October 5, 2011, 11:35 AM   #10
Don P
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Quote:
A "Barney mag" What's that?
Taken from the TV show with Andy Griffith as sheriff and Don Knots as deputy Barney Fife in a town called Mayberry. Andy would only give Barney 1 round and he carried it in his pocket, thus the Barney mag.

Quote:
Barney Mag: You are allowed to load with 10+1 in Single Stack Minor.
Jim, not owning a 1911 9 mm or anyone that does I went on the assumption that the mags are 10 round capacity so hence the need for a Barney mag. If the mags hold more than ten rounds no need for the Barney mag and pardon my ignorance.
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Old October 5, 2011, 11:51 AM   #11
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The max capacity for single stack 9mm mags was nine rounds, until fairly recently. 10-round mags for .38 Super have been around for years, but something about how the 9mm round stacks in a straight tube apparently limited the latter to nine. I still see a lot more malfuntions with 9mm 1911s than with .45s or Supers, so I shoot the latter two calibers in Single Stack and the similar divisions of IDPA. I'd definitely want the advantage of two additional rounds, compared to major, for Single Stack use.
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Old October 5, 2011, 12:56 PM   #12
bofe954
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Quote:
I'd definitely want the advantage of two additional rounds, compared to major, for Single Stack use.
It doesn't seem to be competitive. If you look at results for major matches nobody is winning shooting minor. Rarely a stage may be set up that would really favor 10 rounds but it doesn't happen that often.

The rules also require that a stage doesn't mandate more than 8 rounds from one position, so you generally have time to reload.

I shoot a lot of USPSA single stack and plan on playing around a little with a 9 soon, but I don't think it will be competitive.
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Old October 5, 2011, 02:02 PM   #13
Jim Watson
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Quote:
Jim, not owning a 1911 9 mm or anyone that does I went on the assumption that the mags are 10 round capacity so hence the need for a Barney mag. If the mags hold more than ten rounds no need for the Barney mag and pardon my ignorance.
The "natural" capacity of .38 Super and 9mm G.M.s is nine.
The same trick followers and skimpy springs that make it possible to squeeze in eight .45s will let you load ten .38 Supers. It does not work quite that well for the short, tapered 9mm. Reasonably reliable ten shot 9mm single stack magazines had to wait on the slightly protruding tubes seen on current Wilson, Tripp, and Metalform magazines to allow a little more spring space.

I always had very good results from 9 shot Metalform Super magazines in 9mm guns. But that did not work out well for other brands or any ten shot. I THOUGHT a Tripp Super magazine was doing well with 9mm until this past Saturday when it tied up the gun thoroughly.

Right now I am shooting ten round 9mm Tripp Cobramags and Wilson ETMs. I have some Metalforms that are also doing well, but the first batch I had (lost in The Incident) required rebuilding after about a year of use. We'll see about these.
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Old October 5, 2011, 03:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
It doesn't seem to be competitive. If you look at results for major matches nobody is winning shooting minor.
Nobody is winning nationals, shooting minor? At the club level, it would certainly be possible to win matches shooting minor, loading only seven, or whatever you want to do, depending on the competition. I won a local match shooting Limited with a single stack .45 loaded 10+1, but I would agree with anyone who said, "Nobody is winning Limited with a single stack"!
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Old October 6, 2011, 10:25 AM   #15
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Nobody is winning nationals, shooting minor? At the club level, it would certainly be possible to win matches shooting minor, loading only seven, or whatever you want to do, depending on the competition. I won a local match shooting Limited with a single stack .45 loaded 10+1, but I would agree with anyone who said, "Nobody is winning Limited with a single stack"!
Club level matches sometimes are a bit deceiving.

We have one guy out at our local club that is a GM in Production and Limited (still is "only" M in Single-stack though) who is shooting SS Major - 8 rounds per mag - and is beating most of the scores of the Open shooters. On the OVERALL match results (and out of 50+ shooters) he's always in the top 5 shooting iron sights and 8 per mag.

Even that guy though still isn't winning SS nationals.
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Old October 6, 2011, 07:46 PM   #16
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Don't get me wrong. If all I had was a 9mm 1911, I'd be shooting SS minor. It'd be fun and cheap to reload for.

The way I think of it is this: Sometimes, on some stages, the 10 rounds will help, but on every stage, all the time minor will hurt.
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