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Old October 3, 2011, 09:36 PM   #1
kraigwy
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Some days it doesn't pay to rob a pizza joint

Off duty officer shoots four, kills one, wounds three others.

http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/ar...ts-4-suspects/
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Old October 3, 2011, 11:49 PM   #2
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Wow, that guy is a hero, and an extremely impressive fighter. Thanks for the link.
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Old October 4, 2011, 12:32 AM   #3
kraigwy
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I guess I should have mentioned, or asked.

Why did the Off Duty cop have to grab someone else's gun, where was his?
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Old October 4, 2011, 01:04 AM   #4
LockedBreech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraigwy View Post
I guess I should have mentioned, or asked.

Why did the Off Duty cop have to grab someone else's gun, where was his?
I had the same thought. My brother is a LEO up in Gillette and always carries.
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Old October 4, 2011, 01:31 AM   #5
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there is no way to tell just by the one story, but I figure the kid was an idiot(we actually already knoe that by default), and the gun was in his easy grasp vicinity.

16yr old dufus, small+not that strong, being an idiot, has gun real close to you: I would probably grab it too.

It would seem the BG's gun was in good working order. I have heard many times the other way around and even robberies being committed when the BG knows it probably won't shoot more than one. Of course we would always assume it would shoot a full mag no matter what we felt...we can't cut that corner.
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Old October 4, 2011, 07:56 AM   #6
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The officer is a hero a 4 on 2 brawl and the officer got control of BOTH weapons? Amazing!

Four less scumbags on the streets of Rockford preying on the innocent.
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Old October 4, 2011, 08:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Why did the Off Duty cop have to grab someone else's gun, where was his?
It's Illinois, can cops carry off duty? Even if so, not all LEOs carry off duty, seems kind of a moot point though, looks like he did just fine without a gun of his own.
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Old October 4, 2011, 09:06 AM   #8
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Why did he not use his own weapon?

Maybe he was armed but felt that the suspect was so close that he had a better chance using HTH techniques? A pistol in an ankle holster or a belly band inside a shirt, to take a couple of examples, may not necessarily be accessible with sufficient speed to answer a threat from someone who has the drop on you.

Maybe a followup article will give us more details.
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Old October 4, 2011, 09:57 AM   #9
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Not sure about Illinois law, or this officer's departmental policy. I have friends who are cops in the southeast, though, who would not be allowed to carry off-duty into a restaurant if they intended to have a beer or two while inside.

So that could be another possibility.
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Old October 4, 2011, 10:03 AM   #10
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Moving to disarm forces the shooter to worry about maintaining control of the gun over shooting at a target. If you are close enough, you can likely move quickly enough to engage the shooter without getting shot.

On the other hand, moving for your firearm, and doing so in front of a shooter who is covering you with his gun, only forces the shooter to make the decision to shoot. Heck, I would be worried that any movements might result in getting shot. That's why you take your chance with a quick move at the shooter and engage in hand to hand combat if you are close enough to do so.
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Old October 4, 2011, 07:31 PM   #11
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There is a video related to the story - http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=464641

The officer was not carrying a firearm at the time of the incident. (Maybe he will learn from this and change his mind about being unarmed.)
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Old October 6, 2011, 07:22 AM   #12
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Pizza Robbery

Surely this story must be wrong. It is illegal to carry a handgun in Illinois unless you are law enforcement. Even then, there should be no way the teenagers carried guns; they are not eligible for FOID cards and the shop owner’s son surely should not have one on his person. This whole story must be BS.

Or maybe all of Illinois is BS. This looks like it is more proof gun control does not work.
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Old October 6, 2011, 09:28 PM   #13
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I don't have a link to it, . . . but last night (10/5/11) in Columbus, Ohio, . . . cops rolled up into an armed robbery in progress, . . . another Pizza joint, . . . gun battle ensued, . . . cops 1 / bg's 0.

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Old October 6, 2011, 10:48 PM   #14
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Let me guess the 16 year old who died at the scene, "was a good boy who was starting to turn his life around and loved his Mother."

Good Guy's 1 up.
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Old October 6, 2011, 10:57 PM   #15
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The place is carry-out & delivery only, so no alcohol is served on the premisis.

IIRC, the deputy also used a weapon the owner was carrying.
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Old October 7, 2011, 06:07 PM   #16
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I am not 100% clear on this but is carrying a concealed weapon legal in Illinois @ your place of business? I cannot recall any employee in any local gun store I have been to showing me, or talking about CC'ing on the job. MOST employees of said store ARE open carrying though.
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Old October 7, 2011, 10:02 PM   #17
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sh^& happens

This was quite a article. The off duty officer reacted in one of the most positive, aggressive, solve the problem life and death scenarios I’ve ever heard about.

Some of the comments about why didn’t he have his own weapon are important.

Some departments in my state, good old California, require their officers to carry a weapon while off duty. One department of over 5,000 uniformed members, back when the duty weapon was a 4 in. .38 revolver, were required to carry that weapon. Another department of equal or bigger size had a policy that only permitted an off duty officer to carry a concealed weapon. That weapon could literally be anything that fired a projectile. The off duty officer was not required to carry a weapon.

Now you may say, “why wouldn’t he carry if he legally could”?

I don’t have an answer. I was not required to carry off duty. Sometimes I did, sometimes I didn’t. However, there was always a concealable weapon someplace nearby. I did start carrying regularly after I walked into an armed robbery unarmed while off duty. The Colt Cobra in the glove box of my 1967 Firebird in the supermarket parking lot wasn’t of much use. I thought of that when I was laying on the floor of isle 3 with the rest of the customers.
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Old October 8, 2011, 01:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
I don’t have an answer. I was not required to carry off duty. Sometimes I did, sometimes I didn’t. However, there was always a concealable weapon someplace nearby. I did start carrying regularly after I walked into an armed robbery unarmed while off duty. The Colt Cobra in the glove box of my 1967 Firebird in the supermarket parking lot wasn’t of much use. I thought of that when I was laying on the floor of isle 3 with the rest of the customers.
trying to picture that moment and I can understand your reasoning looking back!
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Old October 8, 2011, 02:29 PM   #19
TylerD45ACP
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AWESOME...Great job on the off duty officers part. He sounds like a beast, 4 v 1. Well techinally 2 but the officer did all the shooting. Is this guy related to Chuck Norris? It Sounds like something out of film almost doesnt it? Anyone have any idea what firearms were used in the shooting, I am just curious what the officer used.
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