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Old September 15, 2011, 07:25 AM   #26
Uncle Buck
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I hate the packaging the Federal Primer come in. I only buy them if I need them.

I wonder if it is a national fire code that is supposed to limit the number of primers you have on hand. 10,000 primers... Nope, I have no where close to that. What would anyone due with ten boxes of primers? (I wonder how many boxes are in a case? ten trays to the box, XX boxes to the case)

I have heard others mention the fire code before, but when I pressed for information I was either ignored or was told "Oh, that is my local code." Does anyone have a reference for that? Our local Fire Chief was unable to provide any info. He recommended them to be stored in different locations.
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Old September 15, 2011, 08:56 AM   #27
azphx55
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The federal government has no authority to enforce fire codes.
The National Fire Code is essentially a recommendation that they publish which can be purchased and adopted by local fire districts. If your district has adopted it, then the limit is 10,000.

To prevent fire districts from just copying it and adopting it without paying, it's not available to read on-line.
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Old September 15, 2011, 09:27 AM   #28
engineermike
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You are right azphx55, I was getting my information from something called the National Fire Protection Association. Sorry, I was just trying to be safe.
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Old September 15, 2011, 09:37 AM   #29
Jim Watson
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That's interesting... but ATK also produces CCI primers.

I'm not saying you aren't relaying exactly the info they told you, it's just odd since they produce both.
It hasn't always been that way. Once upon a time Federal was Federal and CCI was CCI. They have been through several changes of ownership, finally ending up under one conglomerate. ATK has kept the product lines separate, though, apparently maintaining the respective specifications.

Anecdote: In the 1970s there were several of us shooting tuned Pythons that pretty well demand Federal primers. One of the guys worked in a gun store and when he got caught short on reloads with Federals, he bought some Speer factory loads at employee discount. They shot fine.
So the next time the Speer/CCI rep came by, he asked him why Speer factory loads were reliable with a limber mainspring but reloads with CCI primers were not.
The rep hemmed and hawed but finally said that Speer did not make its own brass, but contracted for it with their headstamp, and it came in to their loading facility already primed. Who actually made it? Federal.
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Old September 15, 2011, 02:01 PM   #30
Sevens
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Quote:
It hasn't always been that way. Once upon a time Federal was Federal and CCI was CCI. They have been through several changes of ownership, finally ending up under one conglomerate. ATK has kept the product lines separate, though, apparently maintaining the respective specifications.
Yes, I'm aware of that -- in fact, it really hasn't been all under the ATK umbrella for all that long. (my guess... 5-10 years, no more? Not sure)

Federal was it's own entity out of Minnesota.
CCI was Cascade Cartridge Inc, from way back, long before Speer was bundled with them, RCBS, Weaver, Outers and others under the Blount name in the 80s.

Perhaps they are indeed keeping their primers separate these days, I don't know. But I have no doubt -- none whatsoever, that their handgun brass operation is all being churned from the same machines with varying headstamps.

New FC, Blazer (brass), CCI, Speer... it's all extruded pistol brass, you can see it in the ever so slightly domed case head. They couldn't be more alike if they tried.
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Old September 15, 2011, 02:38 PM   #31
deepcore
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I'm moving my Federal primers to the lowest shelf then.
Federals were they on brand available in large magnum rifle bench rest I could get locally.
When i first read this thread I called my local reloading store and their two bits is that it's packaged that way because a batch blew up inside a UPS truck.
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Old September 17, 2011, 04:16 PM   #32
F. Guffey
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OTTO,


I am sure they said what you say they said, I am sure R. Lee said what I said he said in his book on Modern Reloading, he did not test Federal Primers, Federal did not donate primers to be tested.


As to the large box, Federal gave Lee something to complain about, I have the large Dillon flip tray for loading primer tubes, I do not give a flip what size the box is. When loading primers in the small Lee tray I tilt the large primer flip tray, cover the primers then flip the flip tray.


In my opinion, Lee got all the mileage they could when they made Federal the boogie man, Lee proclaimed Federal primers were more powerful, Me? I want more powerful primers and I am not a Constituent.


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Old September 17, 2011, 06:41 PM   #33
armoredman
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I've been using Fed 100s for a while now in 9mm and 38 Special, no issues, work quite well. Going to try Remington 1.5s soon, just for something different. I have no issues whateoever dumping any one of the primer pacakages into the flip tray for my RCBS Universal Priming Tool.
I have never heard anyone cite any actual code for primer storage other than retail, at least in this state.
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Old September 17, 2011, 07:04 PM   #34
wncchester
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"they (ATK) produce both (CCI and Federal)."

Not exactly. ATK is a holding company, they aren't gun people and they aren't fools. It would be foolish for them to try to run the highly specialized companies they own. Each company within the group still runs it's own division and each company is expected to make money for ATK.

I seriously doubt anyone at ATK, as such, has much of an idea why Federal packages primers as they do. And it sure isn't due to company specfic government shipping regulations that Fed packages primers as they do; it's a 'chain fire' safety thing they do on their own, not because they expect a problem but to insure there isn't a problem.
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Old September 17, 2011, 07:26 PM   #35
Sevens
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You may very well be correct... but did you read my entire post?

Federal brass IS CCI brass IS Blazer brass IS Speer brass. In handgun, for darn sure. You'd have a helluva time convincing me that the stuff isn't chucked out of the same machine.

It was not all the same before ATK.
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Old September 18, 2011, 07:35 AM   #36
WANT A LCR 22LR
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Somewhere ( might have been on this site ) there was a picture of a primer box that had some go off in storage. Damage was limited to a area around a tray or two. the entire box didn't go off and looked undamaged from the outside. The owner had no idea the box had gone boom until it was opened.

On another note, do primers go boom if tossed into a fire or do they just burn?
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Old September 18, 2011, 08:10 AM   #37
wncchester
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"You may very well be correct... but did you read my entire post?"

Did you read mine? The issue here is primers, not cases. And I'm not trying to convience you of anything. ??
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Old September 18, 2011, 11:40 AM   #38
TXGunNut
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I keep my modest number of primers in a single dry box. It holds all I need but the Federal packaging crowds things a bit. I think the codes cited have more to do with insurance than govt regs and I wouldn't want a fire claim denied just because I felt the need to keep a large qty of primers in my loading room.
I've noticed something odd about pistol brass lately also, Sevens. Just got back into reloading 45acp and it's obvious more than a few brands are coming off the exact same type of machine, possibly even the same machine. My 10-20 yr old brass came off a wide variety of machines. A Precision Delta rep told me years ago that they bought their catridge forming equipment from Winchester and at times would make cases for WW, simply changed the headstamp die. With the widespread practices of outsourcing and corporate mergers it's probably very difficult to tell who actually makes a given product, cartridge cases are no exception.
Who's to say that primers aren't produced in a factory that fills an order for one company one month and another company the next? Priming formulas and packaging can probably be changed with little fuss. Many big companies won't discuss who actually makes their products, sometimes it's because it's a rival company and sometimes it's because they change vendors from time to time.
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Old September 19, 2011, 11:12 AM   #39
GWS
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Packaging is a moot point for me. Either I buy CCI in APS strips, or in the case of Federal and Winchester, I buy them, then pour them into my APS strip filler and fill empty strips. They get stored long-term in boxes similar in size to the APS boxes CCI comes in, ready for prime time anytime. Sorry, but after pecking primers for 38 years, I love that APS system!


http://www.6mmbr.com/catalog/item/1433308/892409.htm

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Old September 19, 2011, 12:07 PM   #40
hartlock
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I have no idea what makes Federal primers so sensitive, but whatever
it is, they are the ONLY primers that will work in my BF falling block
single shots, so, that is all I use!
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