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Old September 7, 2011, 08:27 PM   #1
sailskidrive
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Remington Rand

I've had a Remington Rand 1911 sitting in the back of the safe for a while. Last weekend I was going put it into my rotation and take it to the range but a friend at work told me that I should probably just put it back into storage.

Over all its condition is pretty good. What do you guys think, would you shoot this or just hold onto it for its collector value?
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:52 PM   #2
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I'm of the "just shoot 'em" philosophy. I know some are going to be horrified, but we grew up with those things floating around by the dozens, and how the old war horses suddenly became collectors items is beyond me. Sure, they're nice, and they represent a memorable period in history, but they are not pristine and they are not rare.
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Old September 7, 2011, 08:57 PM   #3
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I'd take the middle path and shoot just a mag or two "occasionally"...
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Old September 7, 2011, 09:04 PM   #4
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I'd shoot it. I shoot all my historical military firearms. Remington Rands are the most common of the WWII 1911A1s with over 900,000 made. They were actually regarded as the best , many say even better than Colts. But I would at least put a fresh recoil spring in it.
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Old September 7, 2011, 09:11 PM   #5
Jim Watson
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That one is better than "pretty good" and IF it is all original, worth a good deal of money. I know a lot of us old cranks still think it looks like "army surplus" but the collectors and speculators have driven the dollar value up beyond all reason.
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Old September 7, 2011, 09:36 PM   #6
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thanks

>>That one is better than "pretty good"

Thanks! I try to take of stuff. Looking at the gun it's hard to believe that Remington Rand was a typewriter company that later made computers. If I remember correctly some of their early guns were made from left over parts that Singer sowing machines manufactured.

I'll probably just put it back in the safe for a few more years and unload it when the economy gets better. I have the Kimber TLE and a USP 45 Expert if I get the .45 bug.
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Old September 7, 2011, 09:49 PM   #7
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I shot mine every now and then, normal shooting mild ammo wont hurt, I don't think. I don't shoot any defense jhp ammo although, I feel they will beat em up more.They are some surprisingly good shooting guns for issue weapons.
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Old September 8, 2011, 09:27 AM   #8
sailskidrive
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Hmmm...

The guys over at the 1911 forum have been pretty helpful, apparently the hammer isn't correct on it. I think I'm just going to put it back in the safe.

thanks guys!
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Old September 8, 2011, 01:16 PM   #9
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FWIW, I know a guy who carried a 1943 Remington Rand, claiming it worked and he could depend on it. He apparently felt that reliability was quite important, as his job at the time was guarding President Karzai in Afghanistan.

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Old September 10, 2011, 06:10 PM   #10
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FWIW, the curator of the small arms museum at Aberdeen proving Ground has stated (and written) that no firearm in their collection will ever be fired, because with older, collector-grade firearms there is no way of knowing which will be "the" shot that breaks something. Once anything breaks, most if not all collector value has been irretrievably lost.

WW2 vintage 1911s were not fully heat treated. The front inch (or so) of the slides was hardened, and a small patch around the slide stop notch. Many formerly valuable M1911s and M1911A1s have broken at the line where the heat treating ended. The front of the slide cracks and breaks off, and you are left with a once-valuable pile of parts.

I would not shoot any original M1911 or M1911A1. You may shoot it for years without any problems. It only takes one shot to end the life and value of the pistol. I suppose it depends on how much of a gambler you are.
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Old September 11, 2011, 03:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
The guys over at the 1911 forum have been pretty helpful, apparently the hammer isn't correct on it.
Somebody installed a 1911 hammer on it for whatever reason. Finding an original 1911A1 hammer correct for a Remington Rand should be a very easy task as there are plenty of them around.
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Old September 12, 2011, 11:21 PM   #12
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there is correct, and then there is correct....

Quote:
apparently the hammer isn't correct on it.
I was a Small Arms Repairman (MOS 45B20) during the mid 70s, and I can tell you for a fact that the hammer on your gun could be completely "correct", but might not be the one it left the factory with.

During my service I saw several of the Remington Rands, and other WWII guns, (the last time the army bought new 1911A1s was during WWII), and we maintained the guns with whatever parts were in the bins.

I even saw a couple of 1911 framed guns, one all original (except we replaced a battered rear sight), and another with several A1 parts.

Army policy from the adoption of the A1 was to maintain 1911s with A1 parts, when needed. SO, you gun could have the "wrong" hammer for the gun as it was originally made, and still be comepletely "right" for a gun in "as issued" condition.

Theoretically, there would be a paper trail on the gun for any work done on it during its military service, but as a practial matter, given the amount of time, and the low priority of records keeping for minor things in the old days (I personally saw hundreds of work order records tossed from my shop alone, to "make room" for something our shop sgt wanted the space for) there is virtually no chance of proving when, or if the replacement hammer was done in a GI workshop, or by someone else in the years since the gun left the service.

I have a RemRand in my collection right now, but about 20 yrs ago, some one decided to turn it into a pin gun. Stippled the frontstrap, swapped out parts, etc. No hope of restoring that gun to GI issue condition.

had one in issue shape years ago, but that one got stolen about 2003.

Take care of yours, shoot it once in a while, and ONLY with GI ball, or equivalent loads.
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Old September 13, 2011, 04:20 AM   #13
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I have found over time that there is a fine line between collecting, and hoarding....in its strictest form it works out to "keeping it nice for you estate sale". We are on earth a short time and a properly maintained firearm of the wood and steel variaty will well be still usable in 300 years ,aside from the odd spring or two that gives out.
Nobody that built a military contract firearm in WW2 would have in thier wildest dreams considered them as anything other than to use for thier intended purpose...telling them you would never be shooting it, handle it only with white cotton gloves, and keeping it in a vault would have gotten you hauled to a sanitorium lol.
while obviously some firearms due to historic use, are best left to high dollars auction houses...45 Lugers used in army trials , and the like.
But G.I. 1911's were everyday utilitarian guns that were not babied by uncle sam....while I would never destroy one to make a racegun, I would on occasion shoot it...be cause the guy at my estate sale probly will, and why should he have the fun I didnt allow myself?
I have a Sterling Armament MK8...only 70 in the world, of that ,only 55 are not in the Royal Arms Collection at Leeds. It had been shot when I got it, and I too on occasion shoot it.
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Old September 14, 2011, 09:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p99guy
But G.I. 1911's were everyday utilitarian guns that were not babied by uncle sam....
True, but as 44AMP can probably attest, when the M1911A1 was the standard-issue sidearm the Army had racks of spare slides for replacing the ones the nose broke off of. We no longer have that luxury. Sure, you might be able to buy a "correct" slide to replace a R-R slide -- and you'll probably pay more than the repaired gun is worth. Or you can buy a new slide from Caspian, make it look pretty much original ... and you still won't have a gun that's worth as much as the cheapest new Philippine 1911 clones.

Whether or not to shoot one of the original old war horses is a personal decision. If I should ever be fortunate enough to acquire a decent one, I would not shoot it.
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Old September 14, 2011, 11:23 PM   #15
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Happiness in life is not totally about worth, or we get right back to keeping it prestine for the next guy.
We cant take this stuff with us.

No, dont make it your every day carry, or shoot matches.... But an occasional magazine through something worth less than 3 grand
Isnt going to cause constipation in the grand skeme of things.... It only makes other hoarders fidget and wring thier hands. Live just a little...just a little.


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Old September 14, 2011, 11:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p99guy
Happiness in life is not totally about worth, or we get right back to keeping it prestine for the next guy.
We cant take this stuff with us.

No, dont make it your every day carry, or shoot matches.... But an occasional magazine through something worth less than 3 grand
Isnt going to cause constipation in the grand skeme of things.... It only makes other hoarders fidget and wring thier hands. Live just a little...just a little.
I have to agree with this. My grandfather had a probably 90% finish numbers matching 1917 (Going on memory) artillery model Luger with the long barrel. We cast bullets, loaded them , and shot them through that pistol. Later in life I had it for a time in high school, it was proof of his trust in me and my loading skills.

The pistol has gone on to another family member, but I'll never forget shooting it with him and honestly, it's just a collection of metal parts. I'd love to have it, but I still have my memories.

Just a long way of saying, shoot it if you want, the museums are full of them and it might just make some wonderful memories for you and a child or grandchild.
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Old September 15, 2011, 08:29 AM   #17
sailskidrive
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nod...

>>Whether or not to shoot one of the original old war horses is a personal decision. If I should ever be fortunate enough to acquire a decent one, I would not shoot it

I've decided not to shoot this one; eventually I'm going to unload it as I like to play w/ my toys. ;-) This kind of reminds me of when I was a kid and my father brought me back several Matchbox cars from a business trip to Europe. My mother informed me that they were for display and not to play. Talk about a bummer.
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Old September 15, 2011, 11:21 AM   #18
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Shoot, I carried a 1945 RemRand as a duty weapon for over 3 months, before changing departments, just this year. Another officer at that department now carries it. That department also has at least one Colt, several Ithacas and one other RemRand they received for the grand total of $160, to cover shipping. LESO sent them to them for basicly nothing. And they can't sell them either, I tried, lol.


In any case, I'd shoot it. I ran several hundred rounds, both 230 FMJ and 230 BlackHills JHP, all standard pressure, through that RemRand. I won't say what happened to it to cause it to feed those big mouthed JHPs so well.
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Old September 15, 2011, 01:04 PM   #19
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Well, I am about to get myself in a controversy again, but here goes.

I was an Army armorer at company and battalion level, a gunsmith for a good many years, and a "gun nut" for a long time, and I have never seen any of those "many" M1911A1 slides that broke off at the front.

As with many other claims it is hard to prove that such a thing did not happen, but in cases like this I think it is up to the person making such statements to document actual cases, preferably with pictures, and some indication of the frequency of occurrence. Ideal would be the results of any investigations and a metallurgical analysis of the slides.

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Old September 15, 2011, 01:15 PM   #20
WIN71
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Shoot it

The first photo is the original John Browning prototype 1911. I WOULD NOT SHOOT IT.

The other is my Remington Rand 1911A1 and I shoot it all the time.

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Old September 18, 2011, 01:10 AM   #21
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I'm glad these nervous nellies weren't around back in the 70's, when Uncle Sam "lent" me a Remington Rand to use (and it got used, often). I'm glad they hadn't invented the broken slide deal back then, I'd have been so worried carrying that antique into combat.

I suppose that shoddy heat treating of metal went across the board on US made WW-II firearms? Should I lock away my M-1 Carbines for fear they'll blow up in my face?

Nah, I think I'll just keep shooting the snot out of them, and stare fear straight in the face and say "I ain't skeered of you!"
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