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Old July 28, 2011, 05:15 PM   #1
tahunua001
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Mosin Nagant customizing

hello all,
so I've been rattling around the idea of getting my hands on a handful of Mosin Nagant WWII bolt rifles and churching them up by either bluing the steel or case hardening the recievers and butt plates(or a combination of the two) and refinishing stocks and turning them into safe queens.
so a few questions come to mind
what would the danger be in case hardening the receiver of an antique rifle that takes a relatively hard kicking round?
would anyone be interested enough in such a weapon as to justify the amount of work that would have to go into it?
what do you think a decent price would be for such a weapon?
all the cookie cutter MNs are going for about $90-110
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Old July 29, 2011, 08:54 PM   #2
tahunua001
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so.....no?

I'll take the rampant and persisting silence as a "that is probably a stupid idea"
thanks for the input guys this has been a productive couple days
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Old July 29, 2011, 09:22 PM   #3
kealil
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I don't know about bluing or hardening but very few mosin owners/ lovers would say anything about refinishing that didn't involve a swift kick and a loud no.

It may just be my opinion and/or bias 7.62x54r.net but that's what I've run into.

If you haaave to do it I would recommend either a really dark stain or a rub that shows off the raw wood.

I would only do it if my finish was just destroyed.

Enjoy your mosin!
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Old July 29, 2011, 09:43 PM   #4
chack
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I've got a really trashed 91/30 that I'm going to customize. It's only in fair-good condition with mismatched parts, a dark and pitted bore, 30% bluing, a poorly bent bolt handle, and a stock in rough shape.

I don't see any good reason to even think about case hardening a mosin though, I can only see a chance of making it brittle, making it a less practical rifle.

I'd like to do the following to my project rifle:
-shorten the barrel to 22"
-install an L1A1 or CETME flash hider
-weld on a longer bent bolt handle
-install a picatinny rail
-sand and refinish the stock with stain and tru oil

I know that it would offend alot of purists, but there are millions of 91/30s. I have a sniper and standard 91/30 in pristine condition so turning a very common rifle in rough shape into a nice unique shooter.
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Old July 29, 2011, 11:54 PM   #5
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Take a $100 surplus rifle, spend a lot of time, and money, and make it a safe queen.
Bet you had a custom 64 Rambler American!!!
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Old July 30, 2011, 12:04 AM   #6
T. O'Heir
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"...an antique rifle..." Hi. A Mosin-Nagant isn't an antique.
"...churching them..." That's called bubbaing. Nobody wants a bubba'd Mosin-Nagant. You'd be taking a $100 plus rifle and turning it into a $50 rifle. No matter what you do.
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Old July 30, 2011, 12:08 AM   #7
chack
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I think a 70 year old rifle may not be an antique rifle according the legal description (pre 1898), but in practical terms, especially as it relates to a car, furniture, etc it is. Since the first Mosins were made in 1891 and pre 98 mosins can be found, some ARE antiques by ATF definition. I DO have a personal problem with rare milsurps getting hacked up though.

I'm doing mine just to turn an old junker into something I'll enjoy shooting more and for practice doing amateur gunsmithing.
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Old July 30, 2011, 12:37 AM   #8
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When I redid my mosin furniture I couldn't use stain. This was because the Russians used an oil finish and after being on the furniture for some 60 + years the oil had penetrated deep into the wood and I could not get it out. Therefore when I put the stain on it beaded up and would not soak into the wood. I ended up having to use a polyurethane which had stain in it.
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Old July 30, 2011, 09:41 AM   #9
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Most Mosin-Nagants aren't "rare" by any stretch...there were over thirty million of them made...that's why most of them are $69.95...

I don't have a problem "sporterizing", or "bubbaing" a run-of-the-mill Mosin, and have done so. Pick one with a good action and barrel, and it will shoot MOA in the right stock with handloads like any other "modern" rifle.

But, I didn't see the added value of the hardening (I didn't even know what it was until I looked it up). I paint my sporters (Duracoat), and if it has collectible value, it's going to be left in original condition by any collector.
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Old July 30, 2011, 03:45 PM   #10
Cheapshooter
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Quote:
Most Mosin-Nagants aren't "rare" by any stretch..
The youngins' don't remember when the same was true with Mausers, and Enfields. Not to mention Springfields, and U.S. Enfields.
Wish I had some of those old "sporters" back to original now!!!

That being said, maybe try to find one of those oldie, but goodies that Bubba got a hold of and make it your safe queen. Then you'd have something.
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Old July 30, 2011, 04:04 PM   #11
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You're just throwing money away by spending it on a POS Mosin.

Let the flames begin.
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Old July 30, 2011, 05:04 PM   #12
tahunua001
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well the case hardening is for decoration(like old colt navy revolvers, you can use chemicals which oxidize the surface of a gun much the same way parkerizing works but it's a very thin layer that wears off with handling. and yes if I ever ran into a pre 1900 anything I would refrain from even exposing it to sunlight. but your average 37-45 cookie cutter MN was the demographic gun I was looking at. basically my way of thinking was to take a gun that is VERY commonplace and make it unique so than in 30 years when this is the one antique gun that is still worth next to nothing, these might actually be sought after. blueing/CH/parkerizing are all expensive and time costly proceedures and from the sounds of things the stocks can only be buffed and re oiled so just as originally suspected...is probably going to die in the hairbrained idea phase of developement
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ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
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Old July 30, 2011, 06:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
is probably going to die in the hairbrained idea phase of developement
May it rest in peace!!!
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Old August 2, 2011, 05:25 PM   #14
gunsmithing
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Moisins have been done in 300 win mag. All it takes is fitting the magazine box for the longer round. It will handle the pressures fine. You should see what groups they are making at the international Sniper Compitions with them.
Do not let these bubas diswade you from experimenting, and enjoying yourself. I am going to build one in 300 Win Mag as soon as possible. Fiberglass stock, lengthened magazine, milled to fit the round, bolt face fitted to the Magnum round ect. Should be a fantastic shooter.
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Old August 18, 2011, 01:28 AM   #15
bignasty
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Do what you want. I totally agree that taking one of the cheapo's and messing with it is ok but im no purest. It may not be worth much but it might be somthing u can hand down in the family that they can say grandpa made this and thats worth more than 100 bucks to most anybody.


Like a true american would say (F**k everyone else im doin what i want)
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Old August 18, 2011, 03:37 AM   #16
HottAK47
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I once saw a MN at a gunshow that had been heavily engraved and restocked with a really nice piece of wood.Looked pretty nice but I kept thinking "why?". I figured it must of been somebody in Europe somewhere and thats all they could find to work on.
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Old August 19, 2011, 03:09 PM   #17
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the best way i've customized my mosin was get the synthetic stock an a bi-pod. cut the far sight off an added a drilled an tapped with a nikon coyote special scope.
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Old August 19, 2011, 03:20 PM   #18
kozak6
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It's not worth the effort. And unless you have an FFL, you are wading into very dangerous waters.

Quote:
what would the danger be in case hardening the receiver of an antique rifle that takes a relatively hard kicking round?
It might blow the hell up. That's pretty dangerous, as I understand it.

Quote:
well the case hardening is for decoration(like old colt navy revolvers, you can use chemicals which oxidize the surface of a gun much the same way parkerizing works
No, it isn't. Case hardening is nothing like parkerizing. It's a nearly obsolete surface hardening process involving extreme temperatures and quenching. Parkerizing is a cheap rust resistant finish obtained by boiling a part in a pot. Due to the high temperatures, you would be trading the original heat treatment for a surface process that would leave a soft interior. I'm not a metallurgist or a gunsmith, but there's the possibility that it may not even be possible to do it safely.

The simulated case hardening you have in mind is a different thing entirely. It wears poorly and tends to be widely derided on the few commercial firearms that have made use of it. It's a thing to avoid, not seek out.

Quote:
basically my way of thinking was to take a gun that is VERY commonplace and make it unique so than in 30 years when this is the one antique gun that is still worth next to nothing, these might actually be sought after.
Nope. There's millions of similar "unique" Springfields, Mausers, Enfields, and such out there. It turns out that almost every single time, sporterizing them completely ruins the value. It's the unaltered rifles that are worth the bucks since there are so few of them left.

Quote:
is probably going to die in the hairbrained idea phase of developement
Good.

Also, please note that not all Mosins are nearly disposable junkers. Many of them are rare and collectible rifles. I've seen chopped up Ch√Ętellerault Mosins. I've seen chopped up M39's. Always check the markings before you permanently alter a milsurp rifle. Although it doesn't happen often, sometimes you can strike gold. And if you do, then you can flip it to a collector for a pile of cash and then buy the rifle you really want.
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Old September 6, 2011, 07:19 PM   #19
Doug Bowser
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Why?

Sporterizing military firearms is not practical. Buy a Savage Edge or a Stevens and leave the olde rifles alone., they are of Historical Value.

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Author
"Rifles of the White Death
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Old September 6, 2011, 07:24 PM   #20
Chris_B
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Wouldn't mind shooting an MN that didn't feel like the trigger was hinged 6" above the receiver

Start small
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Old September 6, 2011, 08:04 PM   #21
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The receivers on Russian bolt actions are already case hardened.
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Old September 13, 2011, 06:32 PM   #22
tobnpr
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Quote:
Wouldn't mind shooting an MN that didn't feel like the trigger was hinged 6" above the receiver
That's why I put Timneys in mine
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Old September 13, 2011, 06:52 PM   #23
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For personal use I could see doing it. For resale ...no
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