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Old August 8, 2011, 12:53 PM   #1
Smokin'Joe
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Colt Solid Hammer

Drill hole in hammer face.


Cut threads. (I used a 10-24 tap)


Install proper length screw with thread lock compound. (I used J-B Weld)


Shape metal using Dremel, file, stone, etc. Small dimple on face is remnant of Allen head lug hole.


Exposed threads after shaping.


Hammer/Nipple fingerprint captured on .012” copper sheeting.
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Old August 8, 2011, 01:35 PM   #2
Noz
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Cool! I like that.
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Old August 8, 2011, 01:40 PM   #3
the rifleer
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This is rob ably a still question, but whats the point?
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Old August 8, 2011, 02:01 PM   #4
zullo74
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The point is to keep the fired caps on the nipple and not have the hammer pull them off when you re-cock the gun because they got stuck in the safety pin groove.
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Old August 8, 2011, 02:16 PM   #5
Howard31
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Hammer

One very good point would be to keep from mushrooming firing pins of your conversion cylinder.
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Old August 8, 2011, 07:59 PM   #6
Hawg Haggen
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Just fill the hole with epoxy. I use my pins tho.
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Old August 8, 2011, 10:13 PM   #7
Hellgate
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Joe,
What you are showing is a perfection of what I recommended to the Single Action shooting Society for the reduction of "cap jams" affecting the reliability of Colt style cap & ball revolvers for use during cowboy action shooting matches. A fellow called Noz first recommended filling in the safety notch to a friend of his called Fingers McGee who first posted the recommendation on the SASS Wire web site a couple of years ago. I later wrote an article that was published in the Cowboy Chronicle (SASS newspaper to all SASS members) recommending welding, soldering, brazing or using JB Weld to fill in the safety notch in order to keep the caps from being lifted off the nipples after firing. I have filled all my Colt style revolvers (nine that I can think of) and have not yet had a cap jam since doing so. Your fix is certainly a permanent one and should be highly effective. Sometimes the JB Weld falls out during shooting and must be replaced.

I emailed one of Pietta's corporate officers (SASS alias Alchemista) to recommend that he produce C&Bs with the safety notch filled in (absent) and he replied that his insurance carrier would likely object. I replied that we don't use the 6th chamber anyway in CAS so it wouldn't matter for that use. I also recommended he not bother to install safety notches in hammers (flat faced) on those revolvers for which there are no safety pins on the backs of the cylinders anyway and got no reply from him.

Thank you for showing another more permanent way of creating what some have called the Hellgate modification. I had the idea about 6-7 years ago but could not get solder to stick to the case hardening and had no welder or brazing available so I forgot about it until I discovered JB Weld. Your technique is far more permanent and I commend you for showing such good illustrations of "how to do it". Thanks for showing another method to increase the reliability of the Colts.
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Old August 9, 2011, 08:42 AM   #8
madcratebuilder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HH
Just fill the hole with epoxy. I use my pins tho.
Good old JB weld. I have done this with a couple of imports that had chronic cap lifting issues.

The drill and tap is a 'more better' fix. I would use a hardened set screw.
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Old August 9, 2011, 10:45 PM   #9
Bill Akins
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Quote:
Hellgate wrote:
I also recommended he not bother to install safety notches in hammers (flat faced) on those revolvers for which there are no safety pins on the backs of the cylinders anyway and got no reply from him.
Exactly. What is up with that? All my 1851 & 1860 Pietta's have the safety pin slot on the hammer but NONE of my 1851 or 1860 Pietta's have safety pins on their cylinder backs. Why?

I can certainly understand Pietta omitting the safety pins on the cylinder backs to speed up production (while creating the same exact liability the Pietta rep was worried that the filled in hammer slots would). But what I can't understand is if he was worried about liability of filling in the hammer slot, why isn't he worried about the cylinder's not having pins???? That just doesn't make any sense.

Also if Pietta omits the cylinder safety pins, then as you stated....why have a hammer slot for cylinder pins that aren't there? Also why go to the trouble, time and expense to mill that hammer slot when it isn't going to be used on revolvers that do not have cylinder pins???

The reason he probably never got back with you is because your questions made sense and he had no answers for that and Pietta probably has their tooling set up to make the hammer safety slots and they just don't want to bother changing it even though many if not MOST of their BP revolvers are made without cylinder safety pins.

It's like they are making a parachute but omit the ripcord. Where's the safety in that? There isn't. A hammer safety slot with no safety pins on the back of the cylinder is not only useless, but a waste of time milling since it isn't going to do anything but pull caps off and cause jams.

Completely illogical from a production, mechanical and liability standpoint.


.


.
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Old August 9, 2011, 10:52 PM   #10
Ideal Tool
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I'll bet that hammer slot is cast in just like the "V" notch for rear sight. It would cost money to alter moulds to eliminate this slot. The cyl. however, must be drilled & pins installed..eliminating this extra step would save time and money.
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Old August 10, 2011, 12:29 AM   #11
Hellgate
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Also, none of my 4 ASM Colts have the safety pins either but all have the hammer safety notch (now filled in). My Uberti Colts all have the pins. Oh well.
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Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)
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Old August 10, 2011, 02:47 AM   #12
Bill Akins
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I forgot to say great job Smokin Joe. The face of that hammer looks real good. One question though, why did you drill and bolt it instead of mig welding it closed and then filing it smooth? You did a great job but wouldn't mig welding it and then filing it smooth have been much easier than drilling, tapping, cutting off the bolt and then smoothing it and having some filed down exposed threads show? Not trying to be critical, you did a great job, I'm just curious why you took that route instead of welding or having it welded closed.

Quote:
Ideal Tool wrote:
I'll bet that hammer slot is cast in just like the "V" notch for rear sight. It would cost money to alter moulds to eliminate this slot. The cyl. however, must be drilled & pins installed..eliminating this extra step would save time and money.
I don't know if the hammer is milled or cast, and perhaps your explanation is the reason why. But if it is milled all they would have to do is omit that operation. If it is cast, it wouldn't be very hard to fill in that tiny little hammer slot in the molds. One would think Pietta would have enough money to pay one of their mold technicians to do that simple thing. My best friend is a mold maker and he makes, repairs and modifies molds frequently. He tells me about molds he fixes and modifies and how he smooths them out again.

If it is cast, that hammer slot in the mold could easily be closed and then smoothed. Or an insert could be placed in it that would cover the slot in the mold. The fact that the Pietta rep did not get back with nor want to address Hellgate's question is troubling. I guess they figure shooters will buy them anyway....and they do. So as long as their sales are not affected, they probably see no reason to take any action.





.
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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; August 10, 2011 at 03:27 AM.
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Old August 10, 2011, 04:13 AM   #13
Hawg Haggen
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i hope they don't close it up or remove the pins. I'm going to want another one one day. I'd really be ticked off to buy a new one and not have the hammer slot or pins.
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Old August 10, 2011, 09:24 AM   #14
Hellgate
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I had an ASM Walker years ago that had a single pin and a hole in the hammer face for it. I kept getting caps pulled off the nipples so I peened in a piece of copper wire and that solved the problem. Trouble was I couldn't figure how to fill in the notches on the bottom of the other colt hammers so it would stay. Tried solder but it would not stick so I gave up (no welder or brazer) til I started to use JB to hold replacement front sights and thought of another use on the hammer notches.
__________________
With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball.
SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), DGB#129
Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)
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Old August 10, 2011, 03:53 PM   #15
Hawg Haggen
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Quote:
Exactly. What is up with that? All my 1851 & 1860 Pietta's have the safety pin slot on the hammer but NONE of my 1851 or 1860 Pietta's have safety pins on their cylinder backs. Why?
I only had the one Pietta 1860 made in 09 and it had six pins.
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Old September 6, 2011, 10:32 AM   #16
Smokin'Joe
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Deleted, posted in wrong location.

Last edited by Smokin'Joe; September 6, 2011 at 10:38 AM.
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Old September 6, 2011, 03:14 PM   #17
Model-P
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Hey, guys, if the slot is made by the mould (which I highly doubt), then it would not require "filling". The counterpart on a mould would be a protrusion, not a recess, which would simply need to be flattened.
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