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Old August 30, 2011, 04:11 PM   #26
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I don't know why this is always an issue? This has been going on for a century or longer, and dangerous game loads are a known quantity, so why argue? It is not magic or rocket science.

.45 Caliber, quality bullets, no matter what name you call it, 45/70, 450 Marlin, .458 Win. Mag., 458 Lott, all work well within reasonable loadings!

This is proven in the field, not at the kitchen table with a glass of scotch, but it could be debated there!!!

"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"

Last edited by WildBill45; August 30, 2011 at 05:21 PM. Reason: add a letter, or two, subtract another letter
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Old August 30, 2011, 04:26 PM   #27
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In PA they kill bears trying to get a good Italian meal ! Doesn't even look like the claimed 350 lb. Note the paranoia about a hungry bear !!
And Watson , bring your revolver !
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Old August 30, 2011, 04:53 PM   #28
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Those hillbillies in Uniontown were out of hand on that one! Poor Yogi was just out for a picnic basket!

"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"
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Old August 30, 2011, 05:10 PM   #29
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There is hunting, where the hunter generally knows more about the situation than the bear (hopefully) and has the advantage.

Then there is stopping, where the bear is more up close and personal--and irate and coming at high speed.
Art is spot on here. I think people don't make the connection that there is a difference between hunting and self deference.

People(including my self) hunt bears with archery gear. Would I want to defend my self with the bow? But I would hunt with it.

I think most any quality well constructed medium caliber and up bullet would do fine in a hunting situation.

However, in a self defense situation the fattest, heaviest hunk of lead that you can push the fastest is what I would want.
* (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! *

Nope, the old nag's still dead .
(Capt Charlie)
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Old August 30, 2011, 06:35 PM   #30
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hey Alska444 you will need a good recoil pad for such a big load as that.
No thanks, I have already passed on the 45-70. No need for it in my eyes. I am happy with my Marlin .444. If I can't drop it with a well placed shot with that, then so be it.
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Old September 1, 2011, 12:40 PM   #31
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I am happy with my Marlin .444. If I can't drop it with a well placed shot with that, then so be it.
There is a man you don't mess with! He uses a gun he loves, and knows what he is doing with it!

"If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"
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Old September 3, 2011, 02:39 PM   #32
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45/70 for black bears

I can't speak to the effectiveness of a 45/70 on grizzlies but I can tell you from experience that a black bear is a relatively easy kill. I have taken two bears with a 50# recurve bow at 18 yards. If you're planning a spot and stalk hunt and expect to shoot one at some distance, I would think a 30.06 is plenty for the job. I have a friend two dropped a 275# boar at just under 100yds with a 30.30. I'm not necessarily recommending that.
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Old September 4, 2011, 10:47 AM   #33
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.45 Caliber, quality bullets, no matter what name you call it, 45/70, 450 Marlin, .458 Win. Mag., 458 Lott, all work well within reasonable loadings!
I would hope so. Never understand these threads debating the 45/70's effectiveness either. Lord help us if any bears in North America have started just shrugging off 45/70 rounds. Wouldn't want to live near them.
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Old September 4, 2011, 02:17 PM   #34
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gee--if the 45-70 was used to decimate the buffalo years ago--do ya think it could be used to off a bear????
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Old December 17, 2015, 11:31 PM   #35
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We got Grizzlies here. Got some 458 magnum 450 grain bullets loaded in 45-70 casings. They go about 1400-1500 fps (never chronographed them). only problem is you cant put any in the tube. So one of those, then a bunch of 350 grain round nose bullets loaded to about 1800 fps. Im not a guide, but I carry a Marlin guide gun. it was pretty and stainless, and had 900 dollars laying around. Email me if you want to know how I load them. [email protected]
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Old December 18, 2015, 12:44 AM   #36
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I live in Wyoming where we have a LOT of grizzlies. So "bear guns" are a topic of discussion in many a gun shop around this state.

There are 2 schools of thought, both are valid.

#1. A gun for defense against a grizzly in camp or around the ranch.

These fall into the category of "lots of power at close range".
12 gauge shotguns with slugs, 45-70s 458 Socom's 50 Beowulf's 416s and some 458s In this category you also find the heavy caliber handguns. The idea is to have something that is powerful, short and handy and close by, if not on your person.

#2 is the "bear gun" that you carry when hunting for elk deer or moose. It's a gun used 99.9% of the time as your primary hunting tool, but is powerful enough to cover the bases if called on to shoot a "fuzzy-nasty" at spitting distance. These are the 300 magnums, 338's 35 Whelen's and 375H&H's and so on.

When I am hunting in areas that have a lot of grizzlies I usually have a powerful rifle in my 375H&H, 9.3X74R or my 62 cal flintlock, but I also carry a 454 Casull or a 44 mag.

That doesn't make me right and another man wrong, but these are just what I use.
I have killed many game animals and a few domestic ones too with all these guns and I feel 100% confident they would all be fine if I can get the shot. If you don't get a shot then it really doesn't matter what gun you didn't get it with.
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Old December 18, 2015, 01:53 AM   #37
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Zombie Post.
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
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Old December 18, 2015, 02:28 AM   #38
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Zombie post? Ah, so what?

The .45-70 can drop anything in the new world, and most of what's in the old one. I WOULD prefer something a bit flatter shooting and fast-handling for Polar or Kodiak varieties (like a 22" Mauser bolt action in 8x68S, but I digress). I wouldn't pass up an opportunity to hunt bear if my only arm is a .45-70 lever gun. It just means that I'll hurt more at the end of the hunt, because I had to stalk closer than with other calibers.
GOD BLESS JEFF COOPER, whose instructions, consultations, and publications have probably saved more lives than can ever be reliably calculated. DVC, sir.

انجلو. المسلحة. جاهزة. Carpe SCOTCH!
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Old December 18, 2015, 03:43 AM   #39
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I knew two Alaskan guides who carried 338s. A wounded bear could be trying to get away and all you have is a long running shot. That's not a situation you want a 45/70.
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Old December 20, 2015, 12:00 AM   #40
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It's all about the practical range / trajectory. If limiting shots to 150 yards or so (as most shots are anyway, even if not limiting them), the .45-70 would be preferred. But what if that trophy is at 175, 200, or 250 yards? It takes more practice / skill to know how to make a hit quickly with a .45-70 trajectory than from a bottle-necked case chambering, especially in the wind. Most black bears are deep woods critters, and for that matter, brownies are too (though perhaps a little less so), so the .45-70 is likely all you'd ever need, even with only minimal skill ....still, you could encounter your trophy either in a sendero, clearing, or across a water body where a long shot is what you have. One of the best answers, as is usually the case, for brownies, is .30-'06 with premium 180s. For blackies, anything from about .260 rem or larger would be preferred (.280 rem for me).

Then there's the issue, as mentioned, of being an up-close "stopper" - nothing is really a stopper, but I guess I'd agree the .45-70 with heavy loads has a slight edge in this category, arguably. Though, for brownies, something like .35 Whelen, 9.3x62mm, or .375HH kinda have the best of all worlds - better trajectory, AND a lot of wallop. Heavy AND fast is good. But the tradeoff is recoil.

I can't see using anything larger than a .280 rem or .30-'06 for blackies, and for brownies, I can't see why you'd want a .338 maggie of any flavor (like .338 winmag), when the .375 HH mag gives you basically the same trajectory, essentially the same felt recoil (some say less felt recoil than .338 winmag), but really puts a big-hole hurtin on anything it hits. Or better yet, the 9.3x62.
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