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Old July 8, 2011, 01:43 PM   #1
Rustle in the Bushes
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Rate my k31 7.5 swiss load

Brass has arrived and ill be hitting the reloading bench for the first time ever. I looked at the hodgdon site for a load and picked one more or less randomly, figuring ill try it for a pound of powder and see what its like.

168 grain hpbt sierra matchking
40 grains of H4895
Cci primers.
Prvi brass

Any thoughts? Any beginner tips on reloading this calibre?




Note- I'm already on swiss rifles forum thanks.
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Old July 8, 2011, 02:12 PM   #2
rbf420
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1. neck size only, saves ur brass

i use 37 grain imr-4895 with a magnum primer, its a light load but works well, using a 147 grain boat tail surplus projectile.

ur load sounds good to me, i just prefer light loads in most my stuff.
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Old July 8, 2011, 05:36 PM   #3
schnarrgj
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Be sure to make sure the new brass does not need trimming. Sometimes it needs it. Also with my K31, I found that neck sizing did not work. All I can think of is that the camming power of the straight pull was just not the same as a regular bolt. YMMV. I would try a couple with just neck sizing and see if they chamber enough. I use 45 gr of 4064 with a 165 gr Remington soft point for about 2560fps. This load is towards the high side so be sure to workup any load. It is a great deer round.
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Old July 8, 2011, 06:07 PM   #4
Rustle in the Bushes
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Oh right on. That's interesting would anyone care to explain the preference of light bullets vs heavy. What are the properties and advantages of each?


Also, on reloadersnest I saw a load for some swiss juniors club with 30 grains and 168 grain bullet using the same powder I am!. Won't this cause a squib because I'm thinking 39-41 grains he's about 10 grains down from that? Seems a lot to me but I'm not a pro
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Old July 8, 2011, 06:32 PM   #5
IllinoisCoyoteHunter
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My most accurate load is 168 grain Hornady Amax's over 39.0 grains H4895. Gives me a MV of 2539 FPS.Mine are seated .010" off the lands.

Warning, k31's have SHORT throats so watch your COL.
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Old July 8, 2011, 06:45 PM   #6
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It sounds reasonable, but you won't know until you run it over a chronograph, get some velocities and figure your Es (extreme spread) and Sd (Standard deviation).

Unless you happen to stumble onto that magically accurate load. Don't discount luck. It happens to all of us once in a while.
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Old July 8, 2011, 07:20 PM   #7
Rustle in the Bushes
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whats a col?
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Old July 8, 2011, 09:27 PM   #8
IllinoisCoyoteHunter
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COL= Cartridge Overall Length

or some people use OAL for Overall Length, even though it should be OL because overall is one word

Some goofy people say COAL.

COAL = a combustible black or brownish-black sedimentary rock normally occurring in rock strata in layers or veins called coal beds or coal seams.

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Old July 9, 2011, 12:47 AM   #9
Rustle in the Bushes
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Man that has been throwing me for a loop. COL and OAL, hmm! thanks mate(s)
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Old July 9, 2011, 09:35 AM   #10
RaySendero
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Quote:
Rustle in the Bushes wrote:
Brass has arrived and ill be hitting the reloading bench for the first time ever. I looked at the hodgdon site for a load and picked one more or less randomly, figuring ill try it for a pound of powder and see what its like.

168 grain hpbt sierra matchking
40 grains of H4895
Cci primers.
Prvi brass

Any thoughts? Any beginner tips on reloading this calibre?

RitB,

Welcome to the world of reloading for the 7.5x55.

I started loading for this K31 about 8 years ago:


Made some rookie mistakes and learn that reloading for a 7.5 was different from the other CR rifle cartridges I was use to loading:

1) Started out with a book COL of 3.05 - way too long. Worked back to 2.925", which has worked well in my rifle since with 165 and 180 SGKs.

2) Started reforming 284 Win cases. When got some Graf brass found the load data had to be worked up all over again with this case change. Settled on Graf brass and got 300 cases.

3) Started with a set of Lee dies. Found they were resizing the shoulder way too much. Got a set of Redding dies and solved that case/chamber fit problem.


I assume your planning to work up a target load with that SMK bullet. I on the other hand wanted a hunting bullet, so there maybe some different goals between you and I. I use CCI-200-LR primers like you mentioned you do. I chronoed ladder trials with the following powders: Varget, IMR-4064, 4320, 4350 and 4895. Picked IMR-4350. It did the best combination of filling the case when near max loads, gave the higest velocity and had the lowest CV of the ones I tested.

congrads and good luck - hope my 2 cents helps!
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Old August 22, 2011, 01:07 AM   #11
moarkman78
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k31

Im a big k31 shooter and reloader, to be qwite ohnest I cant find a load that will shoot poorly in any of my rifles lol. I read alot about changing small details to get better results but ive tried lots of diferant combinations and so far any combo in a k31 will out shoot the average mouser rifle on its best day. Dont get me wrong guys, I love the mauser lol, I own four of them but my hat is off to the Swiss, Im not shure what magick jue jue theiy pute on thies rifles but what ever it was I dont think the amunishion matters lol.
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Old August 22, 2011, 03:05 AM   #12
Rustle in the Bushes
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How things went

ohhh the ammo matters Id say. i ended up making 2 batches with different specs, brought out a paper target and a sweet 8 inch cube reactive target that self heals. My first time shooting her and I was able to make that damn cube jump up into the air 10 or more times at 100yds.

BTW your 2 cents helped, this thread/forum was awesome and now I count myself among the reloading crowd.

Now I just need to spec out a cast bullet load for cheap practice......
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Old August 22, 2011, 07:59 AM   #13
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Both of these are written by my father. Please don't take his demeanor personally as this was written for a (then) small group of dedicated Swiss rifle reloaders. He can be a bit brusque at times, but old guys can often get away with that.
He's the founder of Swiss Products and one of the two founders of the Swiss Rifles dot com Forums. He's now retired from the internet but is still active with the Swiss firearms accessory business.

This first one is a mail response to an enquiry about the GP11 cartridge.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello, Vince. Thanks for the enquiry.
The k31 and it's mates, the 1911, k11, PE57 and the rare (in the US) zfk55 Swiss Sniper Rifle are a rarity in another category. A Military series of rifles rifles designed around a specific cartridge, projectile weight and profile for unusual accuracy and performance in an issue military rifle. The projectile is a 175gr of the VLD type.

The intent of this cartridge/rifle mating was to hit a human in the kill zone at range and they performed as intended. Not many production rifles are capable of doing that. The very great majority of these rifles perform flawlessly.

Are there rifles that outperform it? Of course there are, but none of them are a standard military issue firearm designed around a dedicated production cartridge for that rifle.

P. St.Marie

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is his message to a small group of Swiss reloaders quite a few years ago. You have to note that some things have changed since then, like a few new powders, dies and projectiles, but the basis of the witing is still valid.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



Part I. A Platform, but not the Deer Hunting Kind.

My "platform" is the basis upon which all of my load data begins, and it's NOT that hard. You can analyze, illustrate, debate and tweak till the cows come home but it all ends with one single base. Your case preparation.

My credentials? 42 years of reloading and 32 of those devoted to the 7.5 Swiss cartridge. Load data of mine that was in use long before the manuals figured out that their own data was absolutley erroneous and even based on the wrong rifle. Do I have any magic? Absolutely not. Is there anything mysterious or technically difficult to understand about how I do it? Absolutely not. Have I varied one iota from my original "platform" in case preparation? Absolutely not.... and yet I see a supposed mystique surrounding the reloading for this cartridge evoking all kinds of semi confusing answers that are completely unnecessary.

I won't argue with anyone about presses or dies. This is what works for me, take it or leave it. Want to use a different press or die set? Go for it. After all these years and many thousands of successful rounds downrange, I'm not changing anything. My daughter gave a seminar on this and had a number of ladies and a larger number of men shooting solid groups in no time at all.

A) Whatever kind of press you have, using RCBS dies, run the ram all the way up. Turn your sizing/decapping die all the way down against the shellholder. Lower the ram and turn the die down another 1/2 turn or so, maybe even less, but make sure that when you run the ram back up the ram "cams over" at the top of the stroke. This is "full length sizing". I don't want to hear about all of the variables in die setting possibilities with all of the other cartridges you use.
For the 7.5 Swiss, make your press cam-over at the top of the stroke. Neck sizing? Forget it. After very few times fired your case won't be chambering anyway. Even if you do neck size, your case will have to be hand-fed into the chamber in exactly the same "o'clock" position every time to be effective. I do it with a few of my commercial rifles with some success. 7.5 Swiss? Forget it. Its an exercise in futility that won't shade my loads anyway, and there are at least two local k31 owners that are now believers.

I've used a myriad of presses over the years and the RCBS Rockchucker was my mainstay until the Dillon 550B came along. Though I have a spread of other mfg's dies, RCBS is all I use for the 7.5 Swiss. I currently have 6 sets.

B) Set your decapper to the proper depth allowing just a bit of the tip to appear through the bottom of the shellholder. Screw it in too deeply and you'll bend the shaft and ruin a case. Lock the die into place.

1) Use a case tumbler or a washing machine to get your brass clean. If its a washing machine, put all the brass in a pillowcase, tie the top and wash them in hot water with a good dishwashing soap. Shake all the water out and let them dry overnight on a towel.

2) TTL.... Trim To Length. Our spec will be 2.179 or less. I suggest you don't trim shorter than 2.175.
Ream and champfer the case mouths. If you don't have that little tool, buy one.

3) Lubing: Use a case lube/pad combo or the new sprays which I consider superior. If its a pad, use your fingers to spread the lube evenly over the surface of the pad and roll the cases completely. Use your finger and tip the case mouth down and roll that too. Don't get lube on the shoulders. This type of lube is non-compressible and can dent your case shoulders upon sizing. Use a mouth brush to get inside, but use it sparingly.
Spray: Using a cookie sheet, line it with aluminum foil and lay your cases down on their sides with all the mouths facing toward you. Holding the can at a 45 degree angle, spray from the rear of the cases toward the mouth allowing spray to enter the case mouths. Using the flat of your hand, roll the cases around and hit the case mouths once more very lightly.
Spray lube is not of the non-compressible variety so you won't have a problem with the case shoulders.
(Note: For the past three years we only use Castor Oil. Latigo)

4) Lightly coat the inside of your die with spray lube. Do NOT do this with paste lube. Put a case in the shell holder and run it up firmly but gently. If you feel any resistance, STOP! Lower the ram and check the depth of your decapper. Check to make sure the inside your die was actually polished at the factory. This is not at all unheard of. I've gotten 3 of these over the years and they will not allow you to run the case in.
Assuming your ram cammed-over at the top of the stroke, you should now have a properly sized case that will chamber withOUT any real resistance in your chamber.
Have to hit your bolthandle with the palm of your hand to get it to chamber? Projectile seating aside, it WON'T be because you didn't size your case correctly.
I've read plenty of rationale on chambering, and (without telling you how many Swiss rifles I have) None of mine chamber other than smoothly and easily, withOUT rapping.

5) Clean your primer pockets with the appropriate tool. I use a small, formed wire brush that fits the primer pocket. Seat your primers dead flush with the case base.

6) Projectile seating: It is not at all necessary to crimp for the 7.5 Swiss rifles. Crimping introduces a variable that you don't need. The grip of the case mouth on the bullet will not be identical every single time, thus, the unwanted variable.
To determine proper seat depth for any given projectile, keep in mind that the measurement is only valid when the contact of the bullet's ogive and the lands/grooves is determined.
Your manual says OAL is 3.020?... maybe for THAT bullet that THEY used, but ONLY for that bullet profile, not all others. Projectile profiles vary from mfg to mfg. So how do you do it?

There are any number of ways, but I've always used the same methodology. Take a sized, empty and UNprimed case, start a bullet into the case mouth leaving it protruding further than is apparently correct. Place it in the rifle's chamber by hand, ease the bolt into full battery and "smartly" eject it. Meassure that OAL and seat it 2 to 4 thousandths deeper. This is a good start. Later, when you've become more deeply involved in data gathering, you may want to play with seat depths to find the sweet spot for your cartridge. I have specifics I use regularly.
Yes, there are other ways. If you like your way better .......use it.
Once you determine your OAL for THAT bullet, screw your seating die down until the mouth of an empty case stops the descent and back it out a full turn. Lock the die in place and back out the seater.
Now insert case with a bullet into the shellholder and run it all the way up. Turn the seater down till it touches the tip of the projectile. Keep running it up, turning the seater down and measuring until you've reached your previously recorded OAL for that bullet. Do it a few times to assure that it's consistent. Once you're satisfied, lock it in place. Now what???
Find load data that might be in a trusted manual or proven data from the board. Always begin with a lesser load even if the data you find "appears" to be proven.

"Stand up and shoot it like a man!"
Only if Jeff Cooper is watching, otherwise use a bench rest when developing your load data. Use the same rest or bagging methodology every time you shoot. Remove all variables from your data gathering..... and THAT'S the secret, gents. Consistency. Consistency.

Ok, the final step I consider important if you're striving to squeeze every ounce of accuracy out of your Swiss rifles is.............. www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/accurizing.html

Does it work? You'd have to ask those who have used the methodology, and there are a lot of them now. I have read a few comments about how it "didn't work for me. A waste of time". It probably was, for those folks. They didn't follow the process correctly and most likely were shooting improper loads with improperly sized cases. ALL of my rifles are accurized, and every one of them improved forthwith.

To wrap this up, I advise that you remove every single variable that you can think of. When reloading, never vary from your case prep (hopefully successful) formula. When shooting for load data, never vary from your shooting stance/position. Record results from every single target you print. Be careful and I wish you success.
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Old August 23, 2011, 12:10 AM   #14
moarkman78
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k31

I have fired many combinations through all my k31 rifles and the worst consistant 100 yard groop i have ever recorded was just over 2 inchess. So if your trying to give a hair cut at 100 yards i would say ammo could make a big diferance lol but for any practicle aplication the k31 can make garbidge ammo look good.
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Old August 23, 2011, 07:48 AM   #15
zfk55
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You need to visit us on the SRDC and repeat all of this stuff. You'd get around a thousand or so members responding to you. We're a multi-national forum with regular Swiss Sanctioned Shoot members and I'd sure be willing to translate for you.

Oh. I forgot. lol
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Old August 23, 2011, 02:13 PM   #16
moarkman78
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swiss

I have been shooting the k31 for 3 years but in that time i have become some what of a swiss nut lol. I have always liked milserp rifles, I own many diferant bolt guns from ww1 and ww2 era. The first time i took a swiiss to the range i fired a sub moa 3 shot groop at 100 yards with the second target i pute up and all three rounds were lying on the bullsye. At this piont i became a swiss aholick lol. Half the brass i shoot is 284 winchester i converted. I load m118 progectiles with r17 powder and my acurrasy is just under that of factory gp11. I have changed seating depth and powder charge aswell as used many othere powders like varget, r15 , and vn140. My result are almost always the same , the gp11 will shoot just slightly tighter than my hand loads. Im not a wise old handloader that nos it all lol but i can tell you for absalute serton that the swiss rifle is of the utmost qwality and will make an average open sight shooter look good at the range.
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