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Old July 31, 2011, 09:16 AM   #1
JACK308
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60gr vmax & deer

would this bullet be a good enough for putting down a deer with a head shot?
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Old July 31, 2011, 09:19 AM   #2
zombieslayer
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Ive never seen anyone shoot a deer in the head. Why would you do that?
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Old July 31, 2011, 09:36 AM   #3
10Ringmagic
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I understand that a lot of poachers shoot them in the head with .22lr, your 60gr V-Max should do it.

Now the question is this,"is it ethical?", seeing as how likely a near miss is. Think along the lines of a jaw being shot, or part of the nose snout.
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Old July 31, 2011, 09:46 AM   #4
Jim243
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I am not saying you couldn't, but the V-Max is a varmint bullet, and does not have a thick jacket on it. It is designed for praire dogs and coyote. You would be better off using one design for hunting deer, like a Partition, Interbond or Corelok that will hold up better on bone when you hit it in the head.

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Old July 31, 2011, 09:57 AM   #5
Art Eatman
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The obvious answer is that, yes, it will, but hitting the brain is the best hit for a clean, ethical kill.

The other part of the deal is the skill and judgement of the shooter, as to whether or not to take the shot.
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Old July 31, 2011, 01:43 PM   #6
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
Ive never seen anyone shoot a deer in the head. Why would you do that?
Because some people hunt for meat, and not antlers. (and doe deer don't have antlers.)

Quote:
Now the question is this,"is it ethical?", seeing as how likely a near miss is. Think along the lines of a jaw being shot, or part of the nose snout.
Art's comment is a perfect response to that. I won't quote it, since it's above my post.

The other side of "is it ethical?", is:
Is it ethical to put not-so-accurate shots into an animal's center of mass, and let it run off into the woods to die? If the shooter doesn't KNOW where the bullet will go when they pull the trigger, they aren't hunting ethically.

When you have the skill and ability to make the proper judgement call, putting a single bullet into an animal's brain is an instant kill. They don't have to run off in excruciating pain, as they slowly die.

There's a reason good hunters are always trying to tell people that knowing their rifle is one of the most important factors in hunting ethically.


Last year, I made my third head shot on pronghorn antelope. A 180 grain Norma Oryx entered the bridge of the doe's nose (about 2 inches behind the nostrils), liquefied her grey matter, and exited through the middle of the brain stem. She hit the ground (dead) before the report of the rifle was heard by the rest of the herd.

I had no meat damage. I didn't have to deal with a bloody mess while gutting. There were no bullet or bone fragments to nick the intestines or stomach. And, the instant kill prevents the adrenaline shot from being dumped into the blood stream. The meat tastes much better than an animal that has time to realize it's dying, and tremendously better than an animal that got a chance to run.

Head shots provide clean, tasty meat (and more of it), an instant kill, and a reason for hunters to argue about whether it's ethical.

And that's just it.... Everyone has their own idea about what's ethical. We'll never all agree. But, me? If I have a valid opportunity, I'll take the instant kill, any day.


Jack - I really don't like using super-explosive bullets for head shots. There's no guarantee that they'll make it through the skull. In 2007, I witnessed a head shot, where a 3,000 fps .277" 130 grain Winchester Power Point was deflected by the thick bony mass around an antelope's eye socket (it still did major, fatal damage, but it was not an instant kill). Go heavier, or tougher, and stay away from the eye sockets.
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Last edited by FrankenMauser; July 31, 2011 at 01:51 PM.
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Old July 31, 2011, 01:43 PM   #7
JACK308
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The reason behiend it is my 223 has more accuracy with it, then my 308 and beside I dont want to cut up a bloody mess! and a head shot would cut the brain and spinal cord off witch would give a 1 shot kill.
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Old July 31, 2011, 04:19 PM   #8
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No problem with the shot you chose.........but that bullet. Better to work up another load or reduce the acceptable range.

Having seem a hog shot to far forward by a guy trying for a head shot......well......it left a bad impression. May have been as slow a death for him to have put one through the ribs but I can not imagin it would have been worse.

And I do have to wonder every time these questions come up how we are to factor in shotguns........whether used on deer, hogs or birds.
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Old July 31, 2011, 04:37 PM   #9
Art Eatman
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I haven't paid close attention to brand names, but there are now bullets designed for deer and .223 use in the 65-75 grains weight range. Penetration and controlled expansion.
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Old August 1, 2011, 03:29 AM   #10
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Yes it will do the job.There are better choices,Barnes x,Sierra gamekings work for Me have used 60gr. Hornady taps in a pinch.Stay close head or neck drt.
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Old August 1, 2011, 11:45 AM   #11
JACK308
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60 is a little to light but I dont think a deer head is to tough for 60 68 I have to check out what shoots better in my gun 1/9 twist.
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Old August 1, 2011, 11:51 AM   #12
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It will do the job if you do your part. First make sure its legal. Next if you are aiming for the hear you need to be able to hit a 4 inch target (at least accoring to my old man).

He says that you need to be able to keep your shots on a 8 inch target to hunt deer using a body shot and a 4 inch target to head shoot deer. So find the range that you can reliably hit every shot on a 4 inch target and then keep your shots with in that range using the same stance. (dont use a bench cause you wont use a bench when hunting)

Actually with a 223 you may want to limmit your shots even more (like I do with a 357magnum lever gun) because it is not the ideal deer rilfe.

Have fun. It will work if you do your part and the law will allow.

Quote:
Is it ethical to put not-so-accurate shots into an animal's center of mass, and let it run off into the woods to die? If the shooter doesn't KNOW where the bullet will go when they pull the trigger, they aren't hunting ethically.
I agree 100%. I see too many kids here in Idaho hunting deer with a rifle that They should not be using on deer. I shot a deer last year with my 45/70 Govt and found that it had a (guessing) 223 round stuck in its hind quarters. I think its beeter to go with a gun that is too big than too small. IF the gun had been a 7mm it likly would have not let the deer run off and could of easly been tracked down and finished off even with this bad shot.

I hunted once with a guy at work that used a 30-30 and we saw a few deer about 500-550 yards away and he does not hesitate to fire off 2 rounds. I quickly kicked him off my land and no longer hunt with him.
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Last edited by Deja vu; August 1, 2011 at 11:59 AM.
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Old August 1, 2011, 02:01 PM   #13
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I do not see a problem with it, I have used .223 vmax pretty extensively on other stuff besides deer. If you are confident in your skills and you can shoot it good.


But, big but,
if you somehow barley graze another animal,
lets just say an offspring of the target animal,
made of the same external coloring,
that happens to blend with the afore mentioned animal,
that also just happens to be just as tall or a little above the desired impact area of the larger animal.

you are gonna have to shoot both of them again...
but again that wasnt a deer
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Old August 1, 2011, 02:34 PM   #14
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.22 caliber isn't legal in many states. You mention having a .308 which is a fine deer caliber, but you are not as accurate as you are with your 223. You do not need to be MOA accurate to kill a deer, if you can hit a 6" disk from teh range you predict you will get a shot off from, you are accurate enough to pull off an good kill. Rather than trying to hit a headshot with a frangible bullet, use your .308, aim for a large vital area just behind the shoulder, yes it could be a little messier, but the dirty work is also part of hunting.
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Old August 1, 2011, 02:35 PM   #15
JACK308
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I dont know if I'l use the 223 on deer - COYOTES yes! deer maybe I have a 308 that would knock em down! with 165gr bullet.
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