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Old July 4, 2011, 12:13 PM   #1
Slugo
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28 vs 410...

for skeet and/or sporting clays. Have a chance to pop a new Citori in either gauge. Never shot a 410 at any clay birds. My initial thoughts are the 28.

any suggestions appreciated...
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Old July 4, 2011, 12:26 PM   #2
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Only a serious expert can hit clays consistently with a .410. Even a 28ga requires significant skill.
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Old July 4, 2011, 12:41 PM   #3
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I've hit 'em with a 28, but it ain't all that easy. Effective range, 30 yards tops, at least for me. The 28 throws a nice pattern. The 410 would be fun to try, just not sure I would want to own one...
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Old July 4, 2011, 01:04 PM   #4
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28 is a great bore for upland ad is finding great favor with the sporting shooters who also shoot subgauge at a registered shoot. Most times, the subgauge birds are held to 35 yards max

I had 2 28's at one time - then I started loading 12 and 20 down to 28 level.

Get the 28, use it for dove and quail, and shoot the small bore shoots - 30" barrels are about ideal
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Old July 4, 2011, 01:09 PM   #5
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I love shooting Skeet with the .410-bore and 28-ga-- I got my first .410 in the early 70s. It was a beautiful little Winchester 101 Skeet grade which I never did shoot very well. It wasn't until I got my first tubed Skeet gun (Brileys in a Perazzi) that I started to get decent .410-bore scores. The dedicated .410s are just too light and have choppy swings. BigJimP loves his little .410 Browning O/U, but admits he doesn't shoot it very well. All of the .410 competitors I've shot with use tubed O/Us.

Another aspect of the .410 is ammo prices. If you don't reload, you're going to feel ripped-odd every time you buy any. On the other hand, if you reload, .410s are much cheaper than the big guns. When I first started reloading them, my cost was 75-cents a box of 25!

Slugo, borrow one and shoot a few rounds before you even thing about buying a .410-bore gun. As far as I'm concerned, the 28-ga hits like a 20-ga and kicks like a .410-bore -- a very nice gun.
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Old July 4, 2011, 01:12 PM   #6
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zippy, I'm pretty sure if I do anything, it'll be the little 28ga/28" Lightning. Shells are still expensive, but allot cheaper here than 410's. thanks for the advice...
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Old July 4, 2011, 03:33 PM   #7
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Buy the 28. Learn to reload. Enjoy.

When you reach out and smack the long ones with your 28 revel in the admiration of the crowd. What they don't know is the gauge is closer to the 20 but many shooters equate it to the .410 which is ballistically nowhere near as good.
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Old July 4, 2011, 03:41 PM   #8
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I have Citori XS Skeet models - in 28ga and .410 ...both with 30" barrels - and weighted the same ...and they feel the same / but hands down, I shoot the 28ga with a lot more confidence and effectiveness.( like the lightning models, my 20ga, 28ga and .410 XS Skeet models - are all built on the 20ga receiver).

Its not that I haven't shot good scores with the .410 ... I have a few 25's to my credit ...but if I miss one bird / then I start talking to myself ...and it all crumbles. For me - if I had a tubed gun / vs my stand alone gun in .410 ...it wouldn't matter. Its mental for me... I do have a couple of 2nd place finishes in the .410 event ( 2005 and 2006 I think ) in my state sporting clays championship ( both yrs I lost to the same shooter - by 1 bird / which still chaps me a little )...and I won, in back to back yrs, in the 28ga events ...where I beat the same guy. So I know its mental ....

The 28ga has a lot more uses ...quail, etc ...and I would say go with the 28ga but I like them both / in fact tomorrow, I'll go to my club with my 28ga and my .410 ...for some skeet ....

Last edited by BigJimP; July 4, 2011 at 03:53 PM.
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Old July 4, 2011, 03:51 PM   #9
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Thanks BJP! I knew you would come to my rescue. Browning guys sticking together. I've done pretty well shooting a friend's Beretta 28 Silver Pigeon. Now I want my own 28...
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Old July 4, 2011, 03:58 PM   #10
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Yeah, you can't trust those perazzi guys .... / they wear fancy italian loafers too....

but seriously, zippy is looking at this from a competitive standpoint ...and honestly, when I got a chance to buy the pair of new Citori XS Skeet models in 28ga and .410 ...I was very happy to be able to get both of them. They aren't serial number matched ...but they're both great guns...

( and since I reload both / reloads are under $ 3.00 for a box of 25 in either 28ga or .410 ..)...

Like I've said many time....if I was in my 40's ( still had good eyes / and really wanted to compete at a high level ) ....I'd buy a Krieghoff K-80 30" barrels, with a parallel adj comb ...with a 12ga stand alone barrel ...and a carrier barrel for 20ga, 28ga and .410 ...and shoot that gun for Skeet and Sporting clays ....all the time. Its a far better option ---than my stand alone guns in all 4 gagues / but I've also had fun with my 4 guns .....and bird hunting, etc ...
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Old July 4, 2011, 04:54 PM   #11
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BJP, how many Brownings you got?!? I have three and soon to be four with a little luck. Oh, I've had more, but sold my 20ga/30" B325 fixed choke and my original 12ga/28" Gold Sporter. Didn't like the aluminum receiver on the Gold Sporter. Prefer all steel like my 1100.

Anyway, you're right, Brownings are indestructible and come up firing every time. Not like those sissy spaghetti guns!!
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Old July 4, 2011, 05:53 PM   #12
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or, instead of carrier barrel and tubes, you can do what one friend did - he had Kreighoff make a set of 28 gauge barrels for his K-80 - weight matches nice - he uses the 12 for main sporting and the 28 for subgauge.......and he doesn't reload
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Old July 4, 2011, 08:18 PM   #13
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410 is gonna be easier to find than 28 as far as ammo goes.
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Old July 5, 2011, 06:06 AM   #14
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Even the wally worlds around here carry 28 gauge AA target loads (also fine for dove and quail), and the local GM carries the hunting loads. Can also find it by the flat online everywhere
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Old July 5, 2011, 08:37 AM   #15
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I like Brownings a lot ...and I have about 12 Browning O/U's - XS Skeet models, XT's, a BT-100 and some Lightning models....( so enough ) ...

Brownings are the only O/U's I have .../ because they "Fit" me.../ but I need a parallel comb gun - or I have to modify the comb to fit me. So the XS Skeet and XT models - and the BT 100 fit me very well - the Lightnings need to be modified. ( just like in another thread, I said the Citori 525 was the worst gun I ever bought / because it didn't fit me).

If I had to get rid of some guns ...for some crazy reason ...I'd give up my 20ga and my .410 - and keep my 28ga and a 12ga ....( never mind / getting rid of guns, is driving me nuts, I can't do it ...) !!!

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Old July 5, 2011, 04:30 PM   #16
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I shot a Citori 28 gauge and I have to say I *want* one. Don't really need one- just want one. Light- nimble.
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Old July 5, 2011, 08:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneounceload
...he had Kreighoff make a set of 28 gauge barrels for his K-80...
Back in the day, a lot of shooters competed with Skeet sets -- a 12-ga O/U action with 12, 20, 28 & .410 interchangeable barrels. Those were the days before Briley had alloy tubes with captive extractors. Before that, tubes, like those by Claude Purbaugh, had separate extractors. I remember one of my early Skeet tournaments: There was a fellow with Purbaughs and he'd dropped an extractor. His whole squad was on their hands and knees sifting through the parking lot gravel looking for his extractor. Captive extractors were a big improvement.
Barrel sets have pretty much faded into history for two reasons: tubes are cheaper and they shoot higher scores.
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Old July 6, 2011, 06:20 AM   #18
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For full 4 gauge skeet sets, I agree 100% Zippy - but the folks I am talking about only shoot sporting, so for them, it is a 12 and 28 only game.

Sub-gauge tubes add weight if not using a carrier barrel. In this one guy's case, he felt a second barrel was easiest to deal with, as he already had an Americase set up for two barrels, and the overall price was about the same
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Old July 6, 2011, 06:35 AM   #19
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1oz said...

"For full 4 gauge skeet sets, I agree 100% Zippy - but the folks I am talking about only shoot sporting, so for them, it is a 12 and 28 only game."

BINGO!!!
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Old July 6, 2011, 12:12 PM   #20
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Mentally - the .410 is difficult to shoot / because of the 18" pattern ...it doesn't allow much room for error ...( and it gets into my head easily). Yesterday I shot a 96 on skeet with my 28ga ...switched to my .410 and shot a miserable 38 out of 50....( identical guns - same spec from same mfg, same LOP, same weight,etc ) no reason for it, other than mental ...so its me.

Having a lot of shotguns is fun ...but balistically, there is no reason why a 28ga, 20ga or a 12ga ...in terms of target games ...won't do everything you need it to do. The only difference is what we consider a standard shell in each of the various guns....

12ga 1oz or 1 1/8 oz of shot at 1200 fps
20ga 7/8 oz of shot at 1200 fps
28ga 3/4 oz of shot at 1200 fps

and its easy to make a 12ga perform exactly like a 28ga with 3/4 oz of shot ...at 1200 fps/especially if you reload.

But having a 20ga or a 28ga is fun .../ the .410 is just Evil ....its another story !! But this idea that only a 28ga can be light and nimble - just isn't right ...you can get a 12ga with exactly the same specs as a 28ga ( weight, barrel lenght, LOP, etc - all the same). Most 28ga's are built on 20ga receivers ...so they're identical to 20ga's for the most part. So the difference is how many ounces of shot you choose to shoot ...nothing else.

But buy what makes you happy / especially if you just shoot to have some fun and aren't serious about competition.
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Old July 6, 2011, 01:13 PM   #21
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Next time Jim, shoot the 410 first. Even though 28 and 410 don't have a lot of recoil, they do have some, and the fatigue of lifting and moving that gun 100 times first could add some fatigue - I bet your 410 scores would be a touch higher if you shot it first
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Old July 6, 2011, 01:17 PM   #22
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When I was a kid, many decades ago, I shot sitting rabbits with a .410 and saw the blood on their sides. Then they would just walk away. Most wuthluss gun ever devised, IMHO.
Go larger, get the 28 ga.
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Old July 14, 2011, 10:29 PM   #23
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If your going small bore, then go small bore. Stopping at the 28 guage you might as well shoot one of these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcoUEFdEMj0&NR=1
410 is the correct choice. It will highlight all bad habits in a hurry.
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Old July 14, 2011, 10:51 PM   #24
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Olddrum1, my friend, talk about bad habits with a big bore: Dead gun. That tank gun didn't follow thru -- I suspect they were spot shooting.
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Old July 18, 2011, 02:26 AM   #25
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Z, spot shootings not a bad thing but you can look kind of silly in trap when you get a slow pull.
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