The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 1, 2011, 03:18 AM   #26
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,320
Quote:
The pump usually holds at least 3 more shells and just pump it, it will never fail unless something goes seriously wrong.
Unless you short stroke it. And with the OP stating that his wife is not really interested, I think simple is better.

Even trained professional have been known to short stroke a pump gun under stress, and while they know what to do when something goes wrong, a non-enthusiast like the OP's wife won't. Two shots for sure is nothing to sneeze at.

Don't get me wrong, I like the pump gun. But a double is nothing to sneer at. It might not be your weapon of choice to repel boarders, and its two round capacity does limit its usefulness for offensive action, for home defense, it is as effective as anything twice fast. Its just slower on shot #3 than a pump. And it is simpler than a pump.

I wouldn't choose a double for house clearing, but the wife isn't going to be doing that, now is she? She's going to barricade herself (and kids) and wait for the cops, with the double handy if they try to get to her.

Pump if the wife is ok with it, but double if she isn't. Better to have an "inferior" gun that can be used, than a "superior" one that can't.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 1, 2011, 03:20 AM   #27
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,349
why not

I have a Russian coach gun in the bedroom for the very purpose, w/ an on board ammo cuff. HOwever, it is a 12 and will loosen your fillings w/ full power ammo, so I load it w/ reduced recoil ammo, 00B. It is noticably shorter than a comparable barrel length pump.

It is often backed by a handgun of assorted type, as it is not unusal for me to have a carry handgun in proximity on many occasions. (though how to carry it in my underwear is another issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Makes a good case for a shoulder or chest rig.
bamaranger is offline  
Old July 1, 2011, 03:29 AM   #28
youngunz4life
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2010
Location: United States of America
Posts: 1,877
I have no problem with a double. Just make sure it is a double if for defense(in my opinion). Then again you use what you have+make it work, but I would want at least two
__________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864
youngunz4life is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 08:54 AM   #29
StuntManMike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2007
Posts: 248
A double is certainly better than nothing.
StuntManMike is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 12:09 PM   #30
Gehrhard
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2009
Location: East of the Missississippippi
Posts: 675
"Unless you short stroke it. And with the OP stating that his wife is not really interested, I think simple is better.

Even trained professional have been known to short stroke a pump gun under stress, and while they know what to do when something goes wrong, a non-enthusiast like the OP's wife won't.
"

May I suggest this is a consideration to avoid buying an 870 without someone yelling at me?

Great, thanks.
Gehrhard is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 02:35 PM   #31
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,320
Not meaning to yell at you...
But there's no reason to avoid buying an 870, especially one of the older ones before they went to plastic parts.

Just be aware that with a pump gun (as with any manually operated repeater), you have to work the mechanism correctly or it can malfunction.

A double does not have that potential problem. IT does have its own drawbacks, everything does. But a double barrel is about as simple as it gets for a shotgun, and for the non-enthusiast, that can be more important than magazine capacity or other features.

And for those of us who are entusiasts, simple hurts nothing, either.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 02:43 PM   #32
mellow_c
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,150
20 gauge!

If the gun is for your wife, and your concerned that she might not be able to handle a heavier gun, GET A 20 GAUGE!

I've seen a lot lately that shows the 20 gauge to be very close to the 12 gauge in energy and destruction down range, especially up close. But the 20 gauge has much less recoil, and is always going to be a lighter and easier gun to shoot. Pump shotguns like the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 in 20 gauge have very real advantages over the 12 gauge in a home defense roll. They are physically smaller and lighter guns, but still maintain fire power that is very close to the 12 gauge. Same can go for a double.

I've even considered switching to a 20 gauge.

I've also considered buying a double for home defense. I'd like the CZ Coah Gun, http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/...case-hardened/ Although I think it's only available in 12 gauge. I like that it can be stored safely with the hammers down and chambers loaded. The hammers sit back from the firing pins while down. It's a bit expensive for a HD gun, but I think I'd be happy enough with it to pay for it. I've read a good review of it in a gun magazine as well. If it is for HD, make sure you have extra shells available, preferably on the gun in a shell carrier. You would hope that 2 will do, but if not, your gona need a reload. An empty gun is a less effective deffensive tool than a baseball bat!

Last edited by mellow_c; July 4, 2011 at 02:51 PM.
mellow_c is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 03:07 PM   #33
TylerD45ACP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 2010
Posts: 1,654
The double is easier to operate for novices. But in an adrenaline fueled situation what if you shoot off one at the target and miss because of some stupid reason. 1 round of 12G left before a reload is bad. I could see carrying a double and a pistol and dump the double after two shots. I still rather have a pump action shotgun, the ultimate HD gun would be a H&K MP5K Full Auto with 2 30rounders jungle taped . Then an extra 2 plus my pistol.
TylerD45ACP is offline  
Old July 4, 2011, 08:21 PM   #34
hardworker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 4, 2010
Posts: 820
I wouldn't say a 20 has less recoil then a 12 just because it's smaller. Generally, the guns themselves are smaller as well. I've shot 20s that would felt like they would break your shoulder if you kept shooting them. But a 20 has more than enough killing power. I wouldn't worry about that aspect of it. Load it with some no 4 buck and don't think twice.
hardworker is offline  
Old July 6, 2011, 10:06 PM   #35
anonymousFolk
Member
 
Join Date: March 24, 2011
Posts: 63
Per:

http://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Shotg...0007270&sr=1-1

1) Majority encounters are ended in 1 shot with a shotgun. The next majority after this was two shots. So this supports two is good enough...assuming you have only one attacker.

2) You can put a pump in cruiser ready status (safety off mag loaded nothing in chamber). Because your adrenaline will be out of control, you'll only have gross motor actions. Gross motor actions is great on a cruiser-reader pump shotgun, you'll have no problem shucking that juiced up (assuming you remember because you practiced this scenario). Non-pump you're going to fiddle with a safety switch, which will be harder due to finer motor control you will have a lack of...or you left the safety off, and even without kids in the home, I wouldn't do that.

Lotta worst-case survival books talk about gross motor actions, trying to make stuff simple and easy vs fine motor control of your muscles to light a fire. Ludin in the book 98.6 degrees even says a shotgun is a great idea for weird survival scenarios. Another great book BTW, but I'm straying off topic...
anonymousFolk is offline  
Old July 7, 2011, 06:21 PM   #36
SteelChickenShooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2011
Posts: 860
I wonder myself

I have always thought a short barrel double was a pretty good choice. I do like the added capacity of a pump or auto. I wonder how much added capacity a person really needs? I can see if your home was invaded, or you were assaulted by more than three people at once, a double could leave you in harms way. But my point is this: there must be some FBI data that spells out what the typical encounter is, and how many rounds were needed to finish the job. Is it typical the criminal is alone and a double is fine? I bet that is the case. To be honest, I had a double but sold it. My go to gun is a pump. But in the back of my mind I've always liked a short double. And whenever I'm in a gun shop I always look them over wondering if I can spend the money to get one. I guess I can't justify it since I already have a pretty good pump. The Stoeger Double Defense is pretty neat. I sort of like the way the rail has been added. In one way it kind of looks gaudy and dumb. In another way it might be all business and capable of providing all the defense one may need. If it breaks down like my old coach gun, then it travels well and that can be good.
SteelChickenShooter is offline  
Old July 7, 2011, 06:29 PM   #37
Microgunner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2006
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,925
I really like the new Mossberg Maverick HS12 stack barrel tactical shotgun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUSpHWJ3P5w
__________________
Proud NRA Patron Member
Microgunner is offline  
Old July 7, 2011, 10:27 PM   #38
Doc Intrepid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 834
Or, since you said your wife was a small woman, you could ditch the 2 shot 12 ga option and get your wife a nice carbine chambered for a handgun round.

Ruger and Marlin make them (among others) - something in .45 ACP or .357 Magnum would offer more than 2 rounds, be controllable for a small woman, and might just fit the bill.

Just a thought.
__________________
Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case.
Doc Intrepid is offline  
Old July 7, 2011, 10:36 PM   #39
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,320
Actually, what is more important that what specific gun you wind up with, is taking the wife shooting it at across the room and down the hall range.

So she can see, and feel, where it hits, how big the pattern and what the kick is. Won't take much, but she has to know the lie about "can't miss witha shotgun", and the kick from personal experience.

She has got to know & experience what happens when it goes off. Beyond that , its all up to her. But less than that is not protecting her, its the opposite really.

good luck, what ever you choose.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 8, 2011, 01:43 PM   #40
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,812
Amen to 44 AMP.....

Expertise is way more crucial than round capacity.
Dave McC is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10263 seconds with 9 queries