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Old July 6, 2011, 05:58 PM   #1
Cary
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20 Gauge Remington Game Loads

I take my shotgun out to the desert with me and shoot some clay targets using my Trius One Step. I'm saving my hulls as I shoot. I am on the fence about reloading my own or just continue to buy them as I need them. The last two times I have went in to buy them there have been a price increase over the last time I purchased. I also know that reloading components have increased in price. I already reload for my center fire revolvers and rifles so the shotshell reloading shouldn't be too much of a jump for me. I inherited a supply of factory Remington Game Loads as well as the Mossberg 500C from my father-in-law when he passed last year. I have continued to purchase the same Remington Game loads anticipating the entry into reloading and to keep things simple to have hulls from the same manufacturer to start with. As I look at reloading data for shotshells they list 20 Gauge 2&3/4 Remington Plastic shells (STS). Are the hulls I have from the Remington Game Loads considered to be STS? Thanks for any info you can give me on this.
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Old July 6, 2011, 06:40 PM   #2
BigJimP
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Yes, the Remington Gun Club and Remington Game Loads / as long as the fired length on the hull is 2 3/4" - they will use the same recipes as the Remington STS or Remington Nitro hulls ( and same components).

The Rem gun club and game load hulls are identical internally - but you'll find over time / that the plastic in the hulls is a little more brittle than the STS hulls - and while they'll give you a decent life span / the STS hulls will hold up a lot longer.

Your transition to shotshell loading will be easy ...and a good entry level - but still progressive press / not a high end press - but a good solid press is the MEC Grabber model. You don't change toolheads on shotshell presses - so you'll need a 20ga specific reloader. There are other options out there - and more advanced MEC presses as well ...but the MEC grabber is a solid, long term machine. I still have a 12ga and a 20ga model, I purchased back in the late 1970's ...and they've continued in life / at one of my sons homes. The Grabber will load 4 - 6 boxes an hour with no problem. Its base manually indexes..so its their entry level progressive vs the more expensive auto indexing model the 9000 GN or the hydraulic operated 9000 HN.
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Old July 6, 2011, 06:42 PM   #3
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Old July 6, 2011, 06:44 PM   #4
BigJimP
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Personally, in Rem STS hulls in 20ga ...I stay with Hodgdon powders ...and in 20ga I like Hodgdon Internatioal or Hodgdon Universal. I like the Winchester wads ...or a clone equivalent and winchester primers. Remington wads are fine and so are remington primers ...it kind of depends on what you can get in a useable qty in your area easily.

For a very versatile load in 20ga ...I stick with 7/8 oz of 8's at 1200 fps ...and I use it in Skeet, or sporting clays ...and occasionally on birds in the field. I will occasionally shoot it for Trap as well ...although I don't often use a 20ga on Trap / its very effective there as well.
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Old July 6, 2011, 07:04 PM   #5
oneounceload
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You do know you will need different reloading equipment, correct?

While Gun Clubs and Game Loads use the same data as STS, the hulls themselves are not the same
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Old July 6, 2011, 11:56 PM   #6
Cary
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Thanks for the information BigJimP and Oneounceload. Needing to purchase a shotshell loader is one issue that is delaying my decision to jump in. I've been looking at new and used loaders and haven't found a deal I'm interested in yet. If I was in the market for a 12 gauge loader there are plenty of those offered for sale in my area. The 20 gauge loaders are fewer in numbers. I'm in no hurry as at this time I'm not shooting that much and am willing to wait for a good loader with some accessories with it. I'll just make note of this information in my records so I will have it when the time comes. I also use several of the Hodgdon powders in my center fire reloading. Universal is one of them. Thanks again. I appreciate the information you two are willing to share with us inexperienced ones.
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Old July 7, 2011, 06:17 AM   #7
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Look for a used MEC Jr. - the best places I he seen have been Craig's List, your local trap/skeet club, and garage sales or flea markets.

Many papers will let you post a Want to Buy ad for free, and you can advertise that way

Good luck
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Old July 7, 2011, 06:56 AM   #8
darkgael
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grab

Another vote for a Grabber. I was fortunate to find one used (with nearly a full bottle of Red Dot and half a tall bottle of shot) but in 12 gauge.
I can very comfortably load six shells a minute with it. No fuss.
Pete
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Old July 7, 2011, 10:44 AM   #9
BigJimP
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Its not all about speed - when it comes to picking a loader...you need to pick one that meets your needs / without frustrating you with the time it takes.

I reload all 4 gagues - 12, 20, 28 and .410 ....and a lot of metallic in 9mm, .40S&W, .45acp,.38 spl, .357 mag and .44 mag ... and my shotshell and metallic loaders are always set up and ready to go ( I'm lucky to have a shop in my home - where I can permanently set my loaders and stuff up and leave it there unattended) .... but I still tend to load in quantities that make sense for me at the time. If I only shoot 5 or 6 boxes a week ...I may load 25 or 30 boxes of that gague. If I know my grandson and his fraternity brothers are going with me ....I'll load up 75 boxes.

I think Mec advertises the Grabber as a 8 - 10 box an hour loader .../ 9000 GN as about 14-16 and the 9000 - HN as around 20 boxes an hour. Of course as you go up in capability / the price goes up as well ...and there are other factors about space, etc. There is nothing wrong with the single stage loaders like the Jr...and they're good machines / but they're slow....
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Old July 7, 2011, 03:20 PM   #10
Cary
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I have never had to reload for my applications in volume as I am my only customer at this time. I don't shoot large volumes of ammunition. My time I spend at it is enjoyable to me and at times it is a kind of therapy. At this point I think the Grabber would be a good unit for me and my application.
The Remington Game Loads are labeled on the box as being 2&3/4" in length and they are labeled as such on each hull as well. I measured the fired hulls and the OAL is right at 2&5/8". Are these still considered to be 2&3/4" hulls? I"m confused and need this clarified. Thanks for your help.
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Old July 7, 2011, 03:48 PM   #11
BigJimP
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yes, they are 2 3/4" ...even though the fired length you measured is at ... 2 5/8" ( the crimp on the fired shells might be angled in a little ) or they may be 1/8" shorter...

You will find that a lot of mfg's hulls vary in length a little bit ...and brand to brand within each mfg vary a little as well.

Shotguns shells are available in 2 1/2", 2 3/4" and 3" ....and of course the chamber on your gun lists the chamber size. As you probably know you can fire a 2 3/4" hull in a 3" chamber ....but you cannot fire a 3" shell in a 2 3/4" chamber.

What gets people in trouble / is they don't realize a shell is sized "by its fired lenth" not its crimped length. So they measure a 3" shell - before its fired - and they think, since it only measures 2 3/4" it not a 3" shell, they think its a 2 3/4" shell...

Speed isn't the most important issue in picking a loader ....like you said a Grabber may meet all your needs. A Grabber met my needs for over 20yrs as well ...and now not so much. I like reloading ...but if I have a large volume of shells to reload / I'd rather do it in a couple of hours vs 10 or 12 hours. The MEC Jr, the Grabber - or one of the 9000 level machines -- all make very high quality shells ..../ and MEC isn't the only loader out there - RCBS, Dillon, etc make good shotshell loaders too. My grandpa started me loading shotshells when I was about 10 ( in the early 60's ) ...and I've stayed with MEC loaders all along .../ but look at the other options too.

If reloading wasn't fun - most of us wouldn't do it / and even if the cost savings was a wash - I'd still reload anyway. Quiet time in the shop is always a plus ...I'm spending the day in my shop - putting the last coats of finish on a little jewelry box for one of the granddaughters ...and loading some 9mm and some .410 shells...( house is quiet / stereo is playing --- what's not to like )....
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Old July 7, 2011, 04:41 PM   #12
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Thanks for making that clear on the shell length.
Today I'm getting some chores done around the house in anticipation of spending some time tomorrow out in the desert shooting my guns. Revolvers, rifles, and shotgun will all be loaded up for a trip out.
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Old July 7, 2011, 05:06 PM   #13
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good - be safe and have some fun ....
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Old July 7, 2011, 05:22 PM   #14
eastbank
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i use a mec 9000g and i like it as it goes as fast as i feel comfertable to go. and you must like reloading,for if you buy all your supplies at retail you will not save much over going to dick,s grices or slimmiler stores and buying by the flat. a friend just bought 12ga 1-1/8 federal club loads for 55.00 a flat. to help keep my cost down i try to buy at gun shows or swap meets or store specials, the last things i bought were 25lbs of 8# shot for 25.00 and a few bags of wads at 2.00 a bag,primers at 20.00 a thousand and red dot at 12.00 a pound. i don,t shot alot of shells,maybe 200 a week, 6 rounds of trap a week and a little pratice on the side. eastbank.
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Old July 7, 2011, 06:06 PM   #15
BigJimP
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Buy your components in bulk ...

a. Wads in cases of 5,000
b. Primers in cases of 5,000
c. Powder in 8 lb kegs ...
d. and get your buddies together and buy a ton of shot ( its only 80 bags to a ton )....

and many gun clubs / will buy components wholesale and re-sell to members at prices well below full retail.

My 12ga reloads are around $4 for a box in 1 oz ...which is enough shot to kill any target. The promo shells in my area are over $ 6 a box ...premium shells are over $ 7.50 a box ...and most of us reload / using higher end components equivalent to a premium shell ...but saving $ 2 a box ..is still a pretty good savings.
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Old July 7, 2011, 08:28 PM   #16
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Yes, the Remington Gun Club and Remington Game Loads / as long as the fired length on the hull is 2 3/4" - they will use the same recipes as the Remington STS or Remington Nitro hulls ( and same components).

The Rem gun club and game load hulls are identical internally - but you'll find over time / that the plastic in the hulls is a little more brittle than the STS hulls - and while they'll give you a decent life span / the STS hulls will hold up a lot longer. from post #2

Couple years ago a member of the club I belonged to, took about 30 or more differentshotgun hulls, cut them in half and mounted one half of each on a board. Board was hung in the clubhouse. You could then compare those hulls, internally, to all the others. Was kinda interesting.

I dont shoot much shotgun but I still found it interesting.

As far as good price on components-the co that the club bought the clay birds from also sold components and delivered em w/ the birds. NO HAZMAT on their own truck. No freight on a pallet of shot!!
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Old July 7, 2011, 10:09 PM   #17
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If you have access to a copy of the Lyman's "Shotshell Reloading Handbook" 5th Edition, it has full size cutaway drawings of several hulls similar to what a member put up on diplay at langenc's club. Also, Hodgdon Powder provides online recipes and the same recipes can be used in Remington STS, Nitro 27, or Gun Club shells. At least, if you are using Hogdon Clays powder. I have only started to reload and have been using the Gun Club hulls.

Oneounceload suggested several places to find a used loader including Craig's List. I was looking on e-bay when one ounce suggested craigs list and I found one on it the next day. If you get a MEC Jr or a Sizemaster, try to find one with a an automatic primer feed.
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Old July 8, 2011, 10:31 AM   #18
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i just figured out that if i bought my supplies at a local store it would cost .224 cents a shell(one oz loads) or 5.60 plus tax(6 percent here). a 4 box carton(100 shells) of target loads with 1-1/8oz at our local mart- mart, rem,win or fed cost 22.00 plus tax. so it is good to get into a group to buy your supplies, if not you will not save very much money. i just like to reload and have the time to do it. and the mart-mart shell are ok,i have shot strait 25,s and a few strait 50,s with them. i don,t think i can blame reloads or factory ammo when i miss. eastbank.
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