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Old July 5, 2011, 07:52 AM   #1
JustThisGuy
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Ted Nugent takes on the U.N.

God Bless Ted Nugent!

In his latest article on 2A Rights, Ted takes on the U.N.'s proposed world-wide ban on private ownership of small arms.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...s-at-it-again/

Quote:
"Tens of millions of people have been slaughtered by notorious gun grabbers. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and other notorious mass-murderer control nuts all banned guns, and millions upon millions of innocent, helpless people died because they had no ability to defend themselves and their families. And now the U.N. seemingly supports more of the same.

America has witnessed carnage after senseless carnage at shopping malls, schools, restaurants and other gun-free zones. Again, when people do not have the right to defend themselves, they are slaughtered in such killing fields."
There is some amazing insight here into back-room strategy at the U.N. Love em' or hate em' the U.N. is always controversial. In my current capacity, that is all that I can say.

Have any readers had direct or indirect experience or insight into the U.N.'s approaches and strategies on private ownership of small arms that they could share?
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Old July 5, 2011, 09:13 AM   #2
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Eliminate evil people, and good people live. Enable evil people to control people, and good people are slaughtered. It’s so simple it’s stupid.
the evil people/good people debate is a slippery slope. the gunman who shot AZ Congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords, probably thought he was ridding society of an evil tyrant, but in the process he killed many innocent civilians along the way. Was he a good person eliminating an evil person? I'm sure there are some who think so. I personally found his actions deplorable. everything isn't as black and white as Ted would lead you to believe.
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Old July 5, 2011, 09:23 AM   #3
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everything isn't as black and white as Ted would lead you to believe
Perhaps EVERYTHING is not as black and white, but some things are. Mass shootings at malls, schools, churches, and even political rallies are never justified. They are wrong and unarmed people never even had a chance.

And history has repeated itself around the world as many millions have been killed at the hands of such evildoers as Nugent mentions in the first paragraph,
Quote:
Tens of millions of people have been slaughtered by notorious gun grabbers. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and other notorious mass-murderer control nuts all banned guns, and millions upon millions of innocent, helpless people died because they had no ability to defend themselves and their families
....this is black and white and no humane or sane person could argue otherwise. We could add the more recent slaughters by Muslim extremists. Murder is not the civilized solution to political or religious differences and never should be accepted or enabled.

In my opinion, Nugent is spot on!
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Old July 5, 2011, 10:11 AM   #4
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Ah, well, this is politics ...

But it is a worthy discussion.

Let's try L&CR and hope the mods there see it as on topic.

Tip: If this gets into a soap box carnival on (plug in your favorite religion to blame for the world's ills here) extremists, it won't last long at all.

Moving.
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Old July 5, 2011, 10:31 AM   #5
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Perhaps EVERYTHING is not as black and white, but some things are. Mass shootings at malls, schools, churches, and even political rallies are never justified. They are wrong and unarmed people never even had a chance.
you're right, there are cases where things are black and white. I was simply pointing out that this isn't always so, especially when Ted Nugent's comment is framed "evil people" versus "good people," because in some cases this is a subjective issue. I don't condone terrorism of any kind, whether it be from Muslim extremists or the homegrown variety in the US, but to these individuals, their actions are based on the idea of good vs evil. Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people because of his views about the Federal Government, whom he portrayed as evil. The same could be said about terrorist acts aimed at the US, which is often portrayed as the "Evil Empire" by extremists around the world.
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Old July 5, 2011, 10:40 AM   #6
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this is a subjective issue.
YEP!!! Subject to the laws and customs of a society... In this'n, killin' folks you do not agree with is slightly frowned upon for the most part...

Brent
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Old July 5, 2011, 12:56 PM   #7
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The despots, thugs, scoundrels, punks and various crooks at the United Nations
Quote:
subhuman scum
Quote:
easier for law-abiding citizens to get their hands on guns so that they would have the means to cause said human vermin to assume room temperature.
Quote:
Apparently the socialist stooges and terminal voodoo freaks at the U.N. didn’t read it. Perhaps some of the soulless voodoo punks at the U.N. can’t read. Based on their personal hygiene shortcomings, it wouldn’t surprise me.
Exactly who is Mr. Nugent trying to win over with this sort of invective? This is no better than something I'd see in the op-ed for a small-town newspaper (or an internet forum). The only part even approaching a rational argument is a short blurb about John Lott's work, with no elaboration or source provided.

While we agree on general principles, I'm not comfortable having this guy presume to speak for us. This is exactly the tone and type of rhetoric that makes people on the fence think we're raving anarchists.
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Old July 5, 2011, 01:16 PM   #8
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There is one inaccuracy of that article. Vladimir Lenin did not ban ownership:

Quote:
Soviet Russia and the Soviet Union did not abolish personal gun ownership during the initial period from 1918 to 1929, and the introduction of gun control in 1929 coincided with the beginning of the repressive Stalinist regime as part of Resolutions, 1918 Decree, July 12, 1920 Art. 59 & 182, Pen. code, 1926.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics

Furthermore modern democratic socialism has a neutral stance on gun ownership, it is wrong and uneducated to say Socialism = No Guns. Communism = No Guns.

If FDR could see the UN now, I fear that he would start WWIII over it, as it was never meant to bully countries into repressive treaties passed by uninformed people.
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Old July 5, 2011, 01:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
This is exactly the tone and type of rhetoric that makes people on the fence think we're raving anarchists.
And not very articulate ones, if Mr. Nugent's foam-flecked rant is taken as exemplar.
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Old July 5, 2011, 02:17 PM   #10
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And not very articulate ones, if Mr. Nugent's foam-flecked rant is taken as exemplar.
In the middle of 2008, he gave a concert, during which he held up an AR-15 on stage and crowed, "Hillary-suck on this! Obama-suck on this!" It made national news, and more than a few of us cringed.

There's a very real difference between making a point and simply scoring points, and Mr. Nugent doesn't get the distinction. While his tirades might go over great with the (already converted) base, they don't look good to moderates. I've never been comfortable with him appointing himself as a spokesperson for the gun culture.

In an unrelated note, if I ever have to hear "Cat Scratch Fever" again, I'm going ballistic.
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Old July 5, 2011, 02:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Furthermore modern democratic socialism has a neutral stance on gun ownership
The UK and most of Western Europe seem to differ with your interpretation of what modern democratic socialism believes... The Canadians outlawed pistols. China certainly takes a dim view of personal firearms (I understand it is a long prison sentence) and I will take a guess and say that North Korea feels the same.

It may be more accurate to say that not all democratic socialist countries have eliminated privately own firearms just most of the democratic socialist countries. One must also be careful because the word democratic gets thrown around in a lot of systems that have very little democracy.

If I give you only hard core socialist or hard core whatever to vote for and no other choices, sure its technically democratic but in actuality its anything but democratic.

The UN however seems to be wish for all nations to give up some level of sovereign power, something that doesnt sit well with our Constitution nor a great many people of this nation. Im not going to dig off into all the things people say but simply sum it as we need to keep all of our sovereign rights and powers as a nation.
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Old July 5, 2011, 02:32 PM   #12
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In the middle of 2008, he gave a concert, during which he held up an AR-15 on stage and crowed, "Hillary-suck on this! Obama-suck on this!" It made national news, and more than a few of us cringed.

There's a very real difference between making a point and simply scoring points, and Mr. Nugent doesn't get the distinction. While his tirades might go over great with the (already converted) base, they don't look good to moderates. I've never been comfortable with him appointing himself as a spokesperson for the gun culture.
agreed
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Old July 5, 2011, 02:37 PM   #13
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Democratic socialism, as the ideas that I follow mostly differs from US democracy in areas of economics and social programs. It is in contrast from what you know as Market Communism (PRC) and the EU democracies.

Gun ownership is essential, yet too many even believe small amounts of control are repressive, small being the current NICS and 4473 laws. Those are reasonable, but laws such as 922r and Hughes are ridiculous. The UN has taken the position of acting as an overseer of countries, something its not designed for.
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Old July 5, 2011, 02:41 PM   #14
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It needed to be said, but there's a lot to be said for speechwriters. Ted could do more than Charlton Heston did if he would just hire publicists and speechwriters.

So who then if not Ted? Larry the Cable guy lol?!
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Old July 5, 2011, 03:08 PM   #15
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So who then if not Ted? Larry the Cable guy lol?!
Someone who knows how to look presentable and articulate themselves well would be a start. Who stands a better chance of representing gun owners to the courts, the politicians, and the general public?



or



I remember all too well how things went in the 1990's. The gun culture was depicted in the media as a gaggle of beer-belching, confederate flag waving, slogan screaming rednecks. That didn't help us. What helped us was having approachable, respectable spokesmen putting forth reasoned, logical arguments.
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Old July 5, 2011, 03:09 PM   #16
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Ted Nugents status as a celebrity makes him no better a spokesman than Sean penn, Barbara Streisand or the rest of the celebrity ninnies, its just that y'all like HIS message more than theirs

I personally wish all of them would shut up and not pollute the body politic with their rants.

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Old July 5, 2011, 03:15 PM   #17
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Gas-Clay; you're tracking with my opinions. Congrats to Ted for his advocacy, but in the end there surely could be a better messenger (IMHO).

So who will stand up and take his place (as Edward429451 points out)? Don't know....this problem is kinda like the Palin-affect. She's a hoot to watch, sometimes speaks the gospel, but still few "really" take her seriously no matter what she says.
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Old July 5, 2011, 03:35 PM   #18
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Perhaps EVERYTHING is not as black and white, but some things are. Mass shootings at malls, schools, churches, and even political rallies are never justified.
Emphasis mine.

Never? Sampson pulled down a temple and killed thousands of Philistines. Apparently he had his god's blessing and that of his fellow Israelites.

Mobs break into and loot the home of a government official, forcing the man and his family to flee for their lives. Some people might call them thugs, in American history they are part of the Sons of Liberty and our original patriots.

Violence as a political tool is going to be with us for the foreseeable future as it was in our past.
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Old July 5, 2011, 03:44 PM   #19
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Virginia Attorney-General Ken Cuccinelli

Here's a smart, articulate, telegenic spokesman for RKBA. His latest stroke was an official opinion saying that personal defense was "good and sufficient reason" under the Virginia Code to carry concealed into church services. Prior to that, the meaning of that nebulous phrase had never been officially parsed, so most CHLs refrained from testing their luck.

I suspect Mr. Cuccinelli's ambitions don't stop at Commonwealth's AG, either.
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Old July 5, 2011, 03:49 PM   #20
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I personally wish all of them would shut up and not pollute the body politic with their rants.
But I thought celebrity entertainers had some unique insight into solutions for the world's problems.

Who am I to question Bono? I mean, look at that hair...
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Old July 5, 2011, 04:00 PM   #21
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Cuccinelli is a pawn of the anti-environmentalist movement, and needs to go. I roll my eyes at his crappy logic.
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Old July 5, 2011, 04:48 PM   #22
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Pure Politics.

Closed (Bud kinda warned everyone, yes?).
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