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Old July 2, 2011, 04:08 PM   #1
GoOfY-FoOt
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Yet Another Suicide At Central Florida Gun Range

Here's the story on a local NBC News website...

http://www.wesh.com/news/28414789/de...207012011&ts=H

There appears to be a startling trend spiraling out of control, here.
According to the article, there have been several other incidents at this very range, which happens to be one of the largest indoor ranges in the area.

I have two questions to discuss:

1) Is it the publicity, accessability, or simply the location in relation to the population, that causes this particular range to be singled out by these folks?

2) How could reasonable steps be taken to avoid this type of negative situation, without shutting down the range/rentals or infringing on people who aren't in such a mental state?

This basis of one's mental frame of mind, in regard to civil rights, has come into focus during another fairly recent event involving firearms accessability. And to be quite honest, it is extremely perplexing.
On one hand, the belief that a person bent on taking their own, or someone elses life, has a plethora of choices available to them, no matter how many laws get passed, is completely accurate, IMO.
On the other, someone who is intent on harming themselves or others, and is an obvious danger, must be dealt with accordingly.

Where does one draw the line, where the law-abiding's civil liberties come into play?
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Old July 2, 2011, 04:22 PM   #2
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Beats spending a few hundred on a gun, $20 on a box of ammo just to use it to fire the one round to end your life

Not everyone is skilled in proper knot tying or how to wire up a direct hot wire in an electrical panel so they resort to what they know will do the job.

At least he didn't ruin some truck driver's day by steppin' off the curb to kiss the ol' Peterbilt stainless grill.

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Last edited by hogdogs; July 2, 2011 at 04:35 PM.
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Old July 2, 2011, 04:32 PM   #3
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At least he didn't ruin some truck driver's day by steppin' off the curb to kiss the ol' Peterbilt stainless grill.
What about the range employee who had to "mop up"? And do you buff off the scratches and put the same weapon back in the case for the next renter?
Let alone lost revenue, negative publicity, lawsuits???? There is a serious problem arising here, and it will only affect pro-gun folks and gun ranges and gunshops...I think I would rather fix the dent in the bumper and let Mother Nature handle the clean-up.
It just seems awfully selfish for someone to do this, and not give any thought to just how many people it will affect!
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Old July 2, 2011, 04:38 PM   #4
hogdogs
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It just seems awfully selfish for someone to do this, and not give any thought to just how many people it will affect!
Suicide is nearly always the greatest act of selfishness by a person.

In the truckdriver analogy, I mean he will lose a day of work with the investigation as well as wondering if he was somehow at fault for the death...

The same applies to those at the gun range.

But YES!!! Suicide is a selfish act.

Brent
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Old July 2, 2011, 05:15 PM   #5
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I suppose you could have them sign a form saying they will not kill themselves or others while on the premises. That would stop it all, right?

Lots of ranges don't rent guns, partly for that reason.
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Old July 2, 2011, 06:08 PM   #6
ming
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I know a number of ranges that will only rent a handgun to you if you come in with a handgun. So you can rent a gun you want to try out, but it would seem to rule out those with other things going on who have no gun of their own. Seems like a pretty good idea based on these suicides.
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Old July 2, 2011, 06:27 PM   #7
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But YES!!! Suicide is a selfish act.
Not always. Some mental illness and suicide caused thereby is biologically driven.

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Old July 2, 2011, 06:43 PM   #8
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Some mental illness and suicide caused thereby is biologically driven.
Although, this is not the direction I want this thread to go in, I must disagree with your statement. Like most matters of the brain, no pun intended, research can only postulate and theorize as to what causes what and why certain disorders seem to lead to certain types of behavior. As for suicide, who is to say that a person who is unable, or unwilling, to communicate their intentions, does so as a direct result of their mental condition. It may be as simple as, thier inability to communicate, prompts their desire to give up. Something that they could still have control of.

And before you offer it as a rebuttal, someone who is insane or mentally retarded, to the point of not being able to know what is a safe action, does not display intent. ( i.e. Loony individual breaks out of the asylum and darts into the nearest street... )

Now, back to the thread...Ming's idea of not renting to someone who doesn't already possess a firearm, seems plausible but can only be detrimental to those in their right mind, who may be looking to get into shooting or become the newest member of the 2A club. I know that I have sent many an individual to a few local ranges that rent guns, just for the purpose of trying a few out, to feel the differences that I am trying to explain/relate to them.
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Old July 2, 2011, 06:52 PM   #9
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This is very sad.

Maybe the third suicide heard about the first two in the media. Maybe that gave him a plan on how and where to kill himself.

I consider it highly unfortunate that a 27 year old man, with all those years ahead of him, decides to kill himself.

Such a waste.
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Old July 2, 2011, 07:02 PM   #10
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I must disagree with your statement.
You can disagree all you want, but before you do study up a bit: here is something for the layman (I can direct you to more advanced stuff if you like)

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publi...te-index.shtml.

Mental illness is way too complicated for soundbites that reflect the biters prejudices

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Old July 2, 2011, 07:22 PM   #11
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Yes this is a very sad situation. I agree that Sucide is a very selfish act. The only way to really tell if someone is going to commit suicide is when you find the body. It's not the fault of anyone at the range. If this guy had not shot himself... he would have stepped in front of a train, or jumped from a high place.

No blaim should be placed on the family. This was about him and only him... As far as the clean up?... oh well... somebody gotta do it.
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Old July 2, 2011, 07:23 PM   #12
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While it would serve no good purpose to discuss this issue here, WA, and while I, by NO means would make light of, or otherwise belittle the seriousness of PTSD or Severe Depression, I feel that the vast majority of 'science' in this field is riddled with psychobabble and filled with too many people with too many letters behind their name, trying to maintain their status and funding.

Therefore, I humbly request that we agree to disagree.

The truth, is that we don't know the circumstances behind most successful suicides, and speculating does nothing but fill the room with hot air, or the internet with more ones and zeroes.

I'm more interested in discussing sound ways to avoid this type of behaviour, without causing gun ranges to become injured parties, due to an injured party. We are in the process of obtaining our own indoor range, and I truly would like to have the most solid gameplan that I can prepare for, going in.
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Old July 2, 2011, 08:35 PM   #13
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If a person's close friend's and family have no idea the person is suicidal how do you expect a total stranger to figure this out?

One of my co workers went to a large military exercise. The guy in the bunk next to him committed suicide while he was out on the exercise. We have received suicide training out the ying-yang for over a year and a half now. My friend said he exhibited none of the symptoms that we have been trained to look for.

Sometimes you will never know until the act is attempted.

The Gun Range has probably been in the news a lot...the guy that committed suicide might have seen a news report.

I have suffered from depression luckily I am off meds and better now. My Wife thank goodness put a foot up my rear and got me to see someone.
I never had any suicidal thoughts or anything like that I did have some anger issues but I have gotten that under control.
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Old July 2, 2011, 08:55 PM   #14
Tom Servo
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Some mental illness and suicide caused thereby is biologically driven.
The distinction is probably lost on the folks who have to deal with the immediate aftermath. I've been on brain detail, and trust me, it's not fun.

I took some consolation in the fact that he did it in an anonymous place, instead of doing it in a way that would leave his loved ones to find the body. Still, it's a downer nonetheless, and I have to confess I was more than a little resentful over the whole thing.

So, how do you prevent it? You can't. A friend was working as an RSO at an outdoor range, and less than three seconds after he walked past a shooter, the guy angled the gun up under his chin and pulled the trigger. He gave no warning and displayed no signs of illness. There was no way to stop him.

The best you can do is make sure you've got a good insurance policy, keep the number of a clean-up crew on speed dial, and train your employees to recognize certain suspicious behavior patterns. Even then, there are no guarantees.
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Old July 2, 2011, 09:43 PM   #15
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Goofy - unless you have an advanced degree in the appropriate sciences, your blanket statements are truly inappropriate.

Also, the trend of this thread is really not a L and CR, we are not debating the basis of suicide, esp. with armchair experts.

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