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Old July 1, 2011, 06:56 AM   #1
Slugo
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thoughts, Caesar Guerini...

are they a company that is here to stay? Have they pushed both Browning and Beretta out of the mid ranks?

CG has done quite possibly the best job in keeping their customers extremely happy with their fine product. Best warranty and free service policy in the industry. Had the opportunity to shoot a 32" sporter and I have to say I was impressed. Fit, finish, balance and handling was as good as any shotgun I ever mounted. The basic Summit Sporting is an extremely good buy at a little over $3K.

Yep, I think they're here to stay. You guys!?!

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Old July 1, 2011, 07:40 AM   #2
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I would say they are here to stay, if they stand behind their products then people will buy.

Some of the reloading tool mfgrs have no warrenty's posted but if you call because a part broke they send out a replacement free.

Seems like CG is following this practice with the service policy, if they service the guns then you and CG knows the gun is maintained properly.
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Old July 1, 2011, 08:15 AM   #3
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I too wasn't thrilled with the Summit Impact, but they are a step above beretta and a tad above Browning. Some of the other CGs I do like, but I can't justify spending that much on a gun for one disipline. I still prefer a blued slab reciever on the Citoris, but the CGs are nice and priced better than other upper end guns. The CGs and Zolis are meant to bridge the gap between Krieghoff and Browning.
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Old July 1, 2011, 08:22 AM   #4
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They're part of that great Italian consortium known as Family - the one where everyone is related to everyone else, in their case the Rizzinis.

They won't push B&B out mainly because they have raised the price bar- they are now the high-end of the low- to mid grade guns like Browning, Beretta, SKB, etc.

Let's face it - everything now os CNC,CAD/CAM done with as little human labor as possible - keeps costs down

Friend has the Summit Impact - nice gun, no question. As good as another's Zoli, or Blaser? Not thinking so at this time - they are mass producing for the decent O/U market that includes hunters, serious comp shooters, and somewhat comp shooters

Hopefully, they continue their business model and stay healthy
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Old July 1, 2011, 09:30 AM   #5
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1oz, I really want a sporter with 32" barrels. Both my Browning SC guns have 30" tubes. Not sure I'd want a 32" Citori due to excessive barrel weight. An Italian gun, now that's a different story!!
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Old July 1, 2011, 10:13 AM   #6
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The CGs are definitely here to stay and provide good competition to Beretta and Browning but haven't pushed them out. What I am seeing however are more higher-end and more expensive CGs with adjustable everything, engraving, nicer wood and that most useless of affectations -- sideplates. Once into that price neighbourhood the gap between a Blaser F3 Competition Sporting or a Beretta DT10 starts to be less insignificant and IMO they are both better guns than the CG.
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Old July 1, 2011, 11:01 AM   #7
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[QUOTE1oz, I really want a sporter with 32" barrels. Both my Browning SC guns have 30" tubes. Not sure I'd want a 32" Citori due to excessive barrel weight. An Italian gun, now that's a different story!! ][/QUOTE]

That was what made Belgian Brownings so special - their barrels. The other great maker with great barrels is Perazzi - you can specify exactly what barrel weight you want, exactly where you want the balance point to be, etc. - all at no extra cost - so you could order 32 or 34 to a weight balance/point that suits you

(Gun writer friend did that on a P gun he had built for Argentina dove)
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Old July 1, 2011, 11:25 AM   #8
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Oh to have a new custom B-25 with IC/LM fixed choke combo!! Can't think of a better sporting shotgun on the planet...
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Old July 1, 2011, 12:27 PM   #9
.300 Weatherby Mag
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Oh to have a new custom B-25 with IC/LM fixed choke combo!! Can't think of a better sporting shotgun on the planet...
For the $$$ they want for one of those.. I would buy a Perazzi...

Quote:
I too wasn't thrilled with the Summit Impact, but they are a step above beretta and a tad above Browning. Some of the other CGs I do like, but I can't justify spending that much on a gun for one disipline. I still prefer a blued slab reciever on the Citoris, but the CGs are nice and priced better than other upper end guns. The CGs and Zolis are meant to bridge the gap between Krieghoff and Browning.
Beretta makes a lot of different shotguns... In the O/U category they go from $1800-$90,000...

So I highly disagree about the "step up above Beretta"

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Old July 1, 2011, 12:45 PM   #10
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sorry, I disagree. A custom FN built B-25 is probably the most coveted shotgun world wide. A Beretta!! LOLOL...
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Old July 1, 2011, 12:51 PM   #11
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Slugo,

If they are so "coveted." Why do serious shooters go for Perazzis, Kreighoffs, Blasers, Kolar, etc??? Instead of a B-25 for less money??

The Browning B-25s are excellent shotguns, but they are not at the top of the heap... May I direct you to the top..

http://www.fabbri.it/#/home
http://www.purdey.com/
http://www.hollandandholland.com/

There are more... But this is a good representation...
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Old July 1, 2011, 01:42 PM   #12
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I shot a few rounds with a CG 20 gauge with 32" barrels.

I do not need one but I sure do want one.
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Old July 1, 2011, 01:44 PM   #13
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Weatherby, apparently you've never shot clay targets in Europe. Overall, the Superposed rules the roost.

The three high price spread guns you reference are an anomaly and not the norm...
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Old July 1, 2011, 01:54 PM   #14
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Nothing in the CG line interests me enough for me to get rid of my better Brownings and buy one. I've shot a few of them /and some Zoli's ...and just nothing there as far as I'm concerned to make the jump.

To me - there is a significant difference / moving up to Blaser or Perazzi ...and then another big jump to Kolar and Krieghoff.

The better Brownings ( like the XS Skeet or XT Trap with adj combs ) or the Beretta DT-10's, some of the 682's etc ...give you a lot of gun for the money ( in the $ 3,000 - $5,000 price range these days).

I think Blaser might hurt both CG and Zoli in the higher mid-range market ...and Browning/Beretta will hurt them on the lower end of the mid-range market ...and both CG and Zoli might get left out in the cold. ???

The guys at my club that are buying CG's .../ and there aren't many ../ are guys that want a prestigous gun "in their minds" - but can't afford the Blaser or Perazzi - let alone the Kolar or Krieghoff.
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Old July 1, 2011, 02:08 PM   #15
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The other issue --- on some of these higher end guns ...is are shooters buying them to get to that next competitive level ...as the tool to get them to a dozen or more 100's ..../ or are they buying them because they just want them....

Competitive target shooting / big registered shoots .../ number of shooters are way, way down....:

a. Registered Skeet ...is really dying. State championship around here, we're lucky to see 40 shooters / where 10 yrs ago there were 200 or more.

b. Registered Trap ...is down at least 50% over what it was 10 yrs ago.

c. Sporting Clays ...has been down each of the last 5 yrs .../ especially in big shoots like state or regional championships.

As registered shooters numbers continue to diminish ...there are less and less shooters that need / or that will buy these higher end guns. I don't think their markets are that strong ...
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Old July 1, 2011, 02:53 PM   #16
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Sporting is growing - at least in the Red states Jim - I suspect your proximity to Seattle and all that e tails politically, combined with high gas and unemployment is hurting some areas more than others

I see CG s a higher-priced Browning or Beretta basic 68X series- their selling point is nicer finish (agree), better balancing capabilities (agree), top-notch customer service, including three free "pit stops" for tune-ups (agree), new and better engineering design (I disagree there)

Blaser and Zoli sit inbetween those and the higher-tier target guns from Perazzi, Kreighoff, Kolar, Beretta SO5, and on the trap side - Ljutic and Seitz

CG's are good guns - are they worth $X more or are thy inferior by $Y over any of the others? That starts to get into the realm of subjectivity.

Can a high-dollar gun buy a shooter extra targets? In certain ways, yes - typically the higher guns have a fitted stock, balanced just right and a better trigger with light crisp pulls.

IF the shooter BELIEVES he/she will shoot better, than it has, indeed, bought them an extra target or two - and if that extra target or two translates into wins from also-rans, success as been achieved
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Old July 1, 2011, 03:01 PM   #17
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Number of shooters ....now I'm only talking the big registered shoots ....in sporting clays in Oregon, Washington, Idaho and Montana ....are all down over each of the last 5 years - based on what I hear from clubs in the Northwest - and its worse in Trap ...and way worse in Skeet.

Its been a long time up here in the Northwest ...when a sporting clays registered tournament ....had to turn shooters away because they only had room to accomodate 200 or 300 shooters for the tournament.

I'm also seeing the age of the shooters ...continuing to increase. There just aren't that many guys in their 30's or under ...that can pay $ 500 or more for a big tournament up here. Even the weekly shoots - where its about $40 to enter...has seen a drop in shooters too on the sporting clays circuit.

Disposable income is part of it ...on tournaments ...and in buying new shotguns, I think.
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Old July 1, 2011, 04:00 PM   #18
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I believe that the younger folks are into pistols and three guns
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Old July 1, 2011, 06:10 PM   #19
.300 Weatherby Mag
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I believe that the younger folks are into pistols and three guns
Not out west... I will agree the registered shoot numbers are low.. But when I have to wait to get one of 8 skeet or 6 trap fields.. Not a pistol shooter, and I don't want to have anything to do with an AR....
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Old July 1, 2011, 06:18 PM   #20
.300 Weatherby Mag
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Weatherby, apparently you've never shot clay targets in Europe. Overall, the Superposed rules the roost.
I haven't shot in Europe.. The best shooters I've ever seen including multi time Olympic Medalist Kim Rhode shoot Perazzis...

Slugo,

Something you must know.. I own Brownings, and shoot them well even a couple of the vaunted Belgian Superposeds!! They do feel very nice and they have a lot of history.. But they do not dominate the fields...

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Old July 1, 2011, 06:42 PM   #21
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they do in Europe, especially on the international skeet fields, which is a much harder game than ours...
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Old July 1, 2011, 06:50 PM   #22
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they do in Europe, especially on the international skeet fields, which is a much harder game than ours...
Yes it is.. Faster targets, low gun, 1-3 second delay etc..
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Old July 1, 2011, 07:31 PM   #23
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Perazzi and Miroku (Browning) rule the shooting in Europe - at least according to my English friend who shoots there

There's nothing wrong with the Jap Miroku/Browning at all- sturdy and reliable; but there is something about those Belgian barrels.....

And I want to know more about Fabbri's new process for smelting steel - supposedly, it is very high tech and produces an incredible barrel
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Old July 1, 2011, 08:04 PM   #24
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Perazzi and Miroku (Browning) rule the shooting in Europe - at least according to my English friend who shoots there
I've shot in the UK and Europe. I agree Perazzi and Miroku/Browning are very popular but would definitely add Beretta to that mix. From what I've seen the Browning Superposed isn't used as much as the others in the UK and is a relatively rare item in Italy or Spain.
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Old July 2, 2011, 11:48 AM   #25
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"are they a company that is here to stay?"

I wondered about that in 2004 when I acquired this 28 ga. Woodlander. Now that Guerini has taken an equity stake in FABARM, they have access to FABARM's sales network in more than 50 countries.

And Guerini-FABARM is now the 2nd largest shotgun manufacturing group in Italy.

http://www.caesarguerini.it/eng/News...n-FABARM-S.p.A



The same shop has a 32" Summit Ltd. 28 ga. that I'd like to have, too. I looked at it again yesterday. Like I really need another 28 ga.
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