The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 24, 2000, 07:27 PM   #26
Nevada Fitch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2000
Posts: 261
Well, I haven't killed any dangerous game with it but I really do like my 375HH Mag in my Remington 700 Classic.If I had to choose one gun to hunt everything that would be it.
Nevada Fitch is offline  
Old December 25, 2000, 02:25 AM   #27
BadMedicine
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 863
Coydog, what model is your's? Where do you live/hunt?
BadMedicine is offline  
Old December 26, 2000, 04:28 PM   #28
CoyDog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2000
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 163
BadMedicine: My .375 H&H is a Browning A-Bolt Stainless. It's a pretty light outfit, weighing about 8 pounds with a 2.5-8 Leupold. I just put a Kick-Ez recoil pad on it which helps a little, but I still get that stunned feeling when touching one off at the range.
I took the black bear in Manitoba on a guided hunt. I live in Kentucky, but I'm moving to Wyoming in the Spring-2001. I'll be spending a lot of time in grizzly country, so I recently took the scope off the .375 and installed a ghost ring rear peep from Ashley Outdoors, with a fiber optic bead up front. When scouting for elk or just knocking around in the wilderness, I'll take it along for general protection purposes. I usually hunt elk with a .300 Weatherby, but I may use the .375 one of these days to see how it performs.
Good Shooting, CoyDog
CoyDog is offline  
Old December 27, 2000, 12:41 AM   #29
Cmc
Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 2000
Posts: 59
How about 454 Casull , does anybody plan to make a companion rifle for the revolvers in this caliber.
I dont have a story but there is a guy in the NW
that hunts bear with the 454 casull and he is also selling a pistol safari in africa videotape. see the following link
to read his story about killing a brown bear that charged his stand with his Freeddom arms 454 http://www.pistolwhipvideo.com/Bigbear.htm

Cmc is offline  
Old December 27, 2000, 03:57 PM   #30
416Rigby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 1999
Location: Virginia
Posts: 450
Quote:
416Rigby, if you like the .375 better, why the name??
....A throwback to my younger, stronger years, perhaps?...

Between the two... tough choice. But in the field, the .375H&H is simply unbeatable. I am so in love with that cartridge, that I always carry a loaded shell in the loop of my loden jacket, the belted, shiny case making quite a fashion statement !!!

I am actually trying hard to find a cartridge that would beat the .375. But it's hard to find something that has the timeless appeal, the impeccable performance, the widespread availability, the romantic aura, the versatility and the sheer history of the .375H&H. It's the same story for all the American ol'timers who are in love with their '06.

I am glad to see that many of y'all like the old Brit classic too. (BTW, I am an anglophile ONLY when it comes to riflery and brew).

Actually, I would like to know who in gawd's name could possibly infer that the .375H&H is good only for the little stuff? I would like to find out what sort of personal experience (misadventure) could have possibly given origin to such an idea in his head?!?!

416Rigby is offline  
Old December 28, 2000, 06:06 PM   #31
bronco61
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 9, 1999
Location: Alaska
Posts: 518
Dumped a 9 foot brown bear here in Alaska with my 35 Whelen last April. Used crappy 250 gr Federal ammo.
bronco61 is offline  
Old December 29, 2000, 12:43 PM   #32
Glamdring
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2000
Location: MN
Posts: 1,388
416Rigby: As to failures of the 375 on dangerous game see page 44 of the April 2000 issue of Handloader No.204 where Ross Seyfried mentions a solid from a 375 that broke up on the shoulder knuckle of a buff after 2" of penetration. As an aside in a story on 416's. [BTW that buff was stopped with a 400 grain swift A-frame from a 416 Taylor]

And Ross doesn't bash the 375, he recomends the 375 or 416 for most people as heaviest rifle they need for hunting Africa.

I suspect that the reason we hear about failures from the 375 and the 458 Win is because they are the rounds used most often. So they do have a greater total number of failures even if they have a higher % sucess rate.

That and for the 375 I think you need very tough solids because it is a high velocity cartridge for solid use. The standard velocity for most NE rounds is ~2100 right? With the 416 Rigby at ~2370. [Note also that Bell's 7x57 with the 173 grainers would have been doing about same velocity as the 416 IIRC]
Glamdring is offline  
Old December 30, 2000, 10:38 PM   #33
k77/22rp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2000
Location: Michigan
Posts: 577
What about 50 bmg would this be effective on african dangerous game i didnt see that anyone mentioned it is it just not good for hunting?
k77/22rp is offline  
Old December 31, 2000, 02:04 AM   #34
Glamdring
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2000
Location: MN
Posts: 1,388
Was that a serious post? [I can't tell for sure ]

Far as I know no one makes real hunting bullets for the 50 BMG. And most of the portable [light enough for hunting] ones are single shots with rather extreme muzzle blast due to the muzzle brakes. You would probably need to wear plugs and muffs for hearing protection even if you were hunting with the 50 BMG.

If you want an extreme elephant caliber I would suggest the 577 or 600 Nitro as a better idea in a single or double rifle. Or the 500 Jeffery, or the Jeffery Improved which shoots a 535 grain bullet @ 2400, for a bolt gun.
Glamdring is offline  
Old December 31, 2000, 09:26 PM   #35
zot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 2, 1999
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 566
what about 12 ga. slugs?I've read these will stop a griz,
never seen a bear outside a zoo, so have no expertice. but
heard buckshot killing black bears, with one shot.a rifled
barrel with a solid sabot must dump alot of energy.a shot to
the head or neck?
zot is offline  
Old January 1, 2001, 12:33 AM   #36
Glamdring
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2000
Location: MN
Posts: 1,388
Slugs seem to work fine for defense from bears, and would probably work fine in Africa on Lion and smaller.

The main problem with 12 slugs for dangerous thick skinned game is that no one makes a true solid non-expanding slug (yet). The Brennekes [sp?] are supposed to be tougher than the standard American slugs, but I still don't think I would count on them for buff or elephant.

To the best of my knowledge all the sabot slugs for shotguns are hollowpoints that normally penetrate less than normal lead slugs because they spend more energy to deform [ie expand] than the normal slugs.

Now if you handloaded a 420 grain .475" hardcast LBT style bullet in a sabot you might have something. Or even a 360 grain .452" hardcast LBT slug.
Glamdring is offline  
Old January 1, 2001, 10:50 AM   #37
CoyDog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2000
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 163
Winchester has come out with a new slug that I intend to try out. It has a 385 grain Partition Gold bullet. This is patterned after the Nosler Partition, with the addition of a steel cap on the rear section. Should hold together well. Advertised velocity is 1900 fps, with 3086 muzzle energy. That's a pretty good thump!

For bear defense, I like the idea of a Benelli Super 90 with five rounds of these on tap...sorta like a semi-auto 45/70.
Good Shooting, CoyDog
CoyDog is offline  
Old January 9, 2001, 04:17 PM   #38
Keith Rogan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 1999
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 1,014
Glamdring,

Black bears kill about as many people as brown/grizzlies but you have to remember that black bears outnumber the big bears by about 100 to 1.
Ie: when encountering a bear, you are 100 times more likely to be attacked if it's a brown/grizzly.
Actually, it's more than 100 times more likely because more people survive brown/grizzly attacks than black bear attacks - territorial vs predation attacks and these stats only deal with fatalities. Nobody really knows how many people are attacked, because there is no central repository for such statistics. About a dozen people a year are attacked in this state alone.

So.... while you are more likely to be attacked by a brown, you will probably survive. If attacked by a black, you'll probably die unless someone is there to intervene with a firearm.

Reassuring, eh?

As for guns, the .45/70 rules in my opinion. Not entirely for it's ballistics, but also because it's usually housed in a short handy rifle that can be employed quickly.



__________________
Keith
Keith Rogan is offline  
Old January 9, 2001, 04:58 PM   #39
BadMedicine
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 863
KEITH IS BACK!!!!!!!

Welcome back Keith!!!! Have you been out on walkabout??? I was hoping the worse hadn't happened, again Have you been lurking and not posting?? Hmmm, well it's good to have your expert bear advise back at TFL.
BadMedicine is offline  
Old January 9, 2001, 05:22 PM   #40
BigG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,312
I killed...

an enraged squirrel once with a load of 22 Fineshot. Stopped him cold.
__________________
o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC

o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain

o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey

o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC
BigG is offline  
Old January 10, 2001, 01:01 PM   #41
Glamdring
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2000
Location: MN
Posts: 1,388
Keith: This thread was supposed to be about results of guns/loads on dangerous game...when you were hunting. Not defensive shooting or defensive weapons to protect oneself in the woods from attacks. Though it has wondered off topic a bit.

As to black bears vs browies...I was simply making clear what I considered dangerous game to be. IMO a black bear isn't dangerous game since deer rifle work fine on them.

Now if you want to call black bears dangerous animals or whatever that makes sense to me. They can kill people, but so can dogs and rattle snakes. I don't consider dogs or rattlesnakes as dangerous game though.

Brown Bears will hunt and eat adult black bears. I don't think very many black bears would hunt and eat an adult brown bear.
Glamdring is offline  
Old January 10, 2001, 01:24 PM   #42
BadMedicine
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 863
I saw this discovery channel thingy, about bears eating salmon....

There was this HUGE blackbear eating salmon at a stream, probably 400lbs. Then out of the brush on the other side of the river come this grizzly, half his size, prolly 200 or 250lbs. The grizzly just walks strait towards him like he don't care at all. The blackie looks up and kinda trots about 30 yards down stream and starts fishin again. The brown bear don't even break stride, just pivots on two legs, and resumes course strait towards the Black. The black saw him comin' and high tailed it out of there.

I was like "go whoop his a$$, you're bigger!!!" evidently he didn't want to tangle. The browns claws were about 4 inches long. I couldn't really tell the length of the blacks, but alot shorter. They know whose king of the woods
BadMedicine is offline  
Old January 11, 2001, 10:24 PM   #43
Don Gwinn
Staff Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 9, 2000
Location: Virden, IL
Posts: 5,917
I have zero experience, but I just finished Death in the Dark Continent, in which Capstick discusses which of the Big Five is most dangerous. He doesn't really come to a conclusion, but he does devote a chapter to illustrating why the Leopard is possibly the most dangerous. I wouldn't dismiss leopards so easily. Capstick says leopards:
1. Are nearly invisible because they're small and perfectly camouflaged.
2. Are utterly determined to kill once wounded.
3. Charge only from very close quarters, about 5 yards or less, and without any warning noise or growls as lions do.
4. Attack with teeth and all four sets of claws at the same time, sort of grabbing with the teeth, raking with the front claws and windmilling the rear legs to disembowel.

Capstick hunted them with major calibers and uses a homemade armored jacket and helmet along with a Winchester Model 12 full of buckshot for going in after the wounded.
Don Gwinn is offline  
Old January 16, 2001, 01:37 PM   #44
Keith Rogan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 1999
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 1,014
Yeah well, I've been having trouble with TFL since they "upgraded" in December, so while I pop in occasionally, it sometimes won't let me post.

Point taken as to hunting vs defensive arms. Having shot both, I much prefer the .375 to the .338. Even though I know that "on paper" the .338 has less foot pounds of recoil, it's a sharper kick and much more unpleasant to shoot than the good old .375. And of course with the .375, you can get more bullet weight and still an entirely reasonable trajectory for long shots, so... why not?

I say that even though I don't own one. I'm now hunting with a .350 Rem Mag which is sort of a ".375 Light". A short action model 7 in a 6 pound package. A good compromise when you gotta sneak around in thick brush in brown bear country. I don't think I'd want to hunt a cape buffalo with it though....



__________________
Keith
Keith Rogan is offline  
Old January 24, 2001, 10:45 AM   #45
handgun357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2001
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 293
dangerous

Women are the most dangerous game there is.
All require a different tactic.
Good luck to anyone on this hunt.
May the force be with you!!!!!!
handgun357 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11801 seconds with 9 queries