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Old June 8, 2011, 06:01 AM   #1
iblong
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357 lower velocity powder

Im trying for my 5 gun rating in IDPA in a few weeks and due to finances Im going to have to use my S&W 586 in ESR division shooting major PF 165.
This will require me to run my 158gr at aprox 1050 fps Its not hot but recoil needs to be as low as possible to get back on target as Im not shooting moon clips in a divission dominated by 625's big and slow.
I have Unique,2400,231 and blue dot powders on hand,Im leanning towards unique or 2400.So Do I use a faster powder at a neer max loading or do I use 2400 at a minimim loading to keep my velocity and recoil down,looking for a push in the right direction.
Thanks,Bob.
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Old June 8, 2011, 06:29 AM   #2
Mike Irwin
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Remember that powder weight also figures into the recoil -- more powder increases recoil. Maybe not much, but if you're looking for every advantage, it's something to be considered.

I personally would go with WW 231 in your application.
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Old June 8, 2011, 07:04 AM   #3
PawPaw
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Try 10 grains of Blue Dot. That load is listed in my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and it's still listed in the Alliant Reloader Guide. In my Model 66, velocity hovered right around 1100 fps.

Or, try 7.7 grains of Unique. That's a listed load as well.
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Old June 8, 2011, 07:36 AM   #4
Jim Watson
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Are you going to use Magnum brass or hotrod Specials?

In .357 Magnum brass, when I was shooting USPSA Revolver, I got a 158 cast roundnose in a 4" M28 as follows:
8.1 gr Blue Dot = 1138 fps f = 179,804
(Major was 175 back then.)

6.7 gr Unique = 1075 fps; f = 169,850
6.3 gr Win 231 = 1050 fps; f = 165,900
(Too light for USPSA then, fine for that or ESR now.)

I don't know why I got by with lighter loads than Paw Paw, but there it is.


There has been some work done in recent years on recreating the .38-44 High Velocity which would let you use .38 Special brass which is cheaper and ejects .135" quicker.
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Old June 8, 2011, 07:37 AM   #5
zxcvbob
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Red Dot.

Quote:
There has been some work done in recent years on recreating the .38-44 High Velocity which would let you use .38 Special brass which is cheaper and ejects .135" quicker.
I've experimented with those a little. One load that I like (no idea about the power factor) is a 148 grain DEWC over 7.0 grains of WSF and loaded long in .38 Special brass (I'll have to measure one and get back to you.) They work great in a .357 but won't chamber in a .38 Special.

ETA: I just measured a few: 1.365" OAL. They eject faster because of the short brass, but they don't load as quick from a speedloader as SWC or RN or HP bullets

Last edited by zxcvbob; June 8, 2011 at 08:22 AM.
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Old June 8, 2011, 07:54 AM   #6
PawPaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Watson
I don't know why I got by with lighter loads than Paw Paw, but there it is.
I don't shoot competition, Jim, and was trying to answer his question based on my notes. It's entirely possible that a lighter load would suit his purposes and I would recommend that he pay attention to what other competitors like you have found to work.

I'm just an old tin can shooter with a fondness for writing things down. My loads might be too heavy for best results on the competition ranges.
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Old June 8, 2011, 08:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Im trying for my 5 gun rating in IDPA
......Hmmmm .........and here I thought IDPA was supposed to be more practical than that other, used to be "practical" pistol game.....sorry, my mistake.

Quote:
....... but if you're looking for every advantage, it's something to be considered.
How about you shoot what you Carry, or equivalent?
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Old June 8, 2011, 09:46 AM   #8
Jim Watson
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What do you shoot in IDPA, jimbob86?
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Old June 8, 2011, 11:12 AM   #9
iblong
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I do shoot what I carry in another divission,so I should limit my fun to one gun?
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Old June 8, 2011, 11:35 AM   #10
iblong
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JIM WATSON

Im going to use 357 brass,Id rather use 38 brass but was told I might have pressure issues with it trying to make major.
Thanks,Bob.
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Old June 8, 2011, 12:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Im going to use 357 brass,Id rather use 38 brass but was told I might have pressure issues with it trying to make major.
Magnus bullets sells a 200gr cast .38/.357 bullet. You'd need to reach 825fps to make PF, and some +P loadings may get you close using .38spl cases. The COAL may be longer than your typical .38spl round going in, but you'd still only be ejecting .38spl cases. I'm betting the recoil would be a bit softer than making 165k with bona fide .357mag loadings as well.

BTW, if you don't already have some CompIIIs or JetLoaders (my preference), I can heartily recommend them, especially for a speedloader-fed gun in ESR.


Quote:
......Hmmmm .........and here I thought IDPA was supposed to be more practical than that other, used to be "practical" pistol game.....sorry, my mistake.
Being proficient in more than 1 platform and power factor seems pretty "practical" to me.


Quote:
How about you shoot what you Carry, or equivalent?
Yowzer And to think we were worried about the government telling us how and what we should or shouldn't shoot...


Quote:
What do you shoot in IDPA, jimbob86?
I'd like to know now, too.
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Old June 8, 2011, 01:23 PM   #12
iblong
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MrBorland
That acttually sounds like a good Idea,I might have to give it a try.
And I am using Comp III.
Thanks for the input guys.
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Old June 9, 2011, 09:25 AM   #13
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At the mini-matches I used to shoot at TheBulletHole (they have been dicontinued), I shot a 1911 (230's loaded to 850) untill I got my EMP, then it was 115's @ 1200 ...... they were as close to my carry ammo as I could make.
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Old June 9, 2011, 10:34 AM   #14
iblong
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My 45 230 gr load runs 868 my 9mm 124gr run 1150 my38spl are loaded warmer than off the shelf because up untill now factory loads would not make PF.
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Old June 10, 2011, 10:40 PM   #15
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Unique for your specific goal.
Universal Clays when you run out of Unique.
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