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Old June 4, 2011, 10:37 AM   #1
bcotop
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My first reloads - think they were over pressured

Shoot my first reloads out my S&W 1006 today.

I have attached a few pictures of my reload cases after firing. They seemed a little heavy and accuracy was pretty poor. The guy at the range said they looked like they were seated to deep when he took a look before firing.

Used HDY XTP 180gr, 12.3gr A#9, WLP Primer, Set bullet to 1.250" COL. Starline brass.

My question is the cases have some funky pattern on them, is this an indication of overpressure?
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Old June 4, 2011, 11:04 AM   #2
Amin Parker
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The pressure does not look extremely high.

The primer is an indicator of pressures and judging by that, it looks fine to me.

If the primer is completely flat, if the dent on the primer looks comparatively small or not visible or if the primer falls out of its pocket then the loads are too hot.

Edit. I just had another look and agree that the pressures do look on the high side. Not excessively high though.
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Old June 4, 2011, 11:59 AM   #3
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I agree the primers look fine. I had a lot flatter primers from my reloads before
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Old June 4, 2011, 12:09 PM   #4
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In my opinion, the pattern on the cases and the "wipe marks" on the primers both suggest that the slide may be opening a little early.

The pattern looks like the case is starting to be pulled out of the chamber while there's still signficant pressure holding the case expanded against the chamber walls.

The primer wipes can sometimes mean that the firing pin is still forward and in contact with the primer when the barrel is starting to unlock and drop down.

You might try a heavier recoil spring or a lighter load although that load doesn't seem to be on the hot side based on the data I can find. Are you sure of your powder scale/measure?
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Old June 4, 2011, 01:02 PM   #5
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Powder Measure

Well, I just started lastnight and I am using a Lee Safety scale and perfect powder measure. I have been very carefull on using it properly (I hope), but I must admit that I am a little unsure. I"ll set up the scal for 12.3 gr, and then adjust the powder measure until it weighs out ok.
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Old June 4, 2011, 02:06 PM   #6
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Why isn't this posted in the reloading forum???

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Old June 4, 2011, 02:41 PM   #7
bcotop
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My fault. New to the forums and I missed the reloading one.
What spring would you recommend for the 1006?. A 24#
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Old June 4, 2011, 05:23 PM   #8
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I agree with JohnKSa...

I use the Wolff Gun Springs 22lb recoil spring for S&W1006 for most of my loads, it works with my 40S&W & 9x25 Dillon conversion barrels and loadings as well.

I have the 24lb but only use it for extreme testing, it does make the slide tougher to rack( not good in a defensive situation).

Best regards!
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Old June 4, 2011, 10:04 PM   #9
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It looks like to me you have some firing pin drag going on.
Put a new firing pin spring in your gun and make sure the tighter end of the spring goes on to the rear of the spring.
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Old June 4, 2011, 10:47 PM   #10
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I agree with Bob

It has been my experience that I get crowning first then squared primer edges. You have neither.

Did you start with lighter loads then work your way up? I make 5 or ten of each of .5, 1, 1.5, and 2 grains lower than were I intend to end up.


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Old June 4, 2011, 11:25 PM   #11
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12.3gr shouldn't be anywhere near pushing the limits for that combo. 7th Edition Hornady shows a starting load of 11.5gr of AA#9 using a 180gr Hornady HP-XTP and a 1.26" C.O.L. Max load is 14.9gr. 12.3gr should give about 1025fps m.v. which is a fairly mild 10mm load.

www.Handloads.com says that 12.2gr of AA#9 is a starting load for a 180gr XTP bullet and a C.O.L. of 1.25". They give a max load for that combo of 13.5gr.
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Old June 4, 2011, 11:38 PM   #12
bcotop
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They didn't seem so bad when I shot them, a little more kick them some of the factory stuff I shot that same day. I think that I will replace the recoil spring with a Wolf 22#. I bought the gun new in 1992 and it still has the original recoil spring, so I am thinking it is a little worn. So I believe that JohnKSa may be correct in that the slide was opening early on me.
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Old June 5, 2011, 05:34 AM   #13
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"The primer wipes can sometimes mean that the firing pin is still forward and in contact with the primer when the barrel is starting to unlock and drop down."

It's perfectly normal for the 1006 to leave wipe marks on the primers. Many handguns still have the firing pin in contact with the primer when the barrel starts to unlock, many still have the firing pin in contact with the case when the cartridge starts to eject.
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Old June 5, 2011, 09:36 AM   #14
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Here is a piece of 30-30 brass I have cut down to 10mm and over pressured.

Notice the guppy belly case bulge.
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Old June 5, 2011, 03:15 PM   #15
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There is no exact science to reading primers. If you really want to come to some conclusion by reading a primer, I would suggest that the only way you can reasonably do it is to build a bunch of loads that are exactly the same (except for varying powder charge) and shoot them all from the exact same platform and only then try to make some sense from reading the primer and how it looks. Same brass, same bullet, same COAL, same pistol.

And make sure your primers are all the same brand and from the same lot.

I've seen light loads make primers look "heavy" and the opposite also. There's a lot going on in there and glancing at a primer doesn't tell you much.

As for the recoil spring... I put a 22-lb Wolff spring in my 1006, also circa 1992. And I did it on the recommendation of on Mr. The_Shadow. It was good advice when he gave it to me more than three years ago back in 2008, and it's still good advice now. Not only is my 1006 easier to field strip and put back together, my brass doesn't launch in to the next county.

I believe replacing a 20-year recoil spring in a semi-auto pistol is a slam-dunk. [b]Do it[/]b, do it like yesterday!

As for the suggestion to also change the firing pin spring in the 1006... I'd do it, but I've heard that the safety/firing pin on the S&W 3rd Gens isn't to be taken apart by the faint of heart. I still have the new spring Wolff sent me with my recoil spring... but I've not installed it.
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Old June 5, 2011, 03:43 PM   #16
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The pressure limits for the 40SW are just under 33,000 psi. You'll never see any flat primers at that pressure and if you do, you're living on the edge. I wonder why you chose the AA#9 powder though considering Accurate doesn't recommend it for the 40. It's too slow and that what I see in your brass- too slow powder used which is going to throw the pistol slightly out of time. If you're looking for premium performance that is ideal for the 40, look to Power Pistol powder.
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Old June 5, 2011, 04:20 PM   #17
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That's not a .40 caliber, it's a 10mm.

Different cartridges.

Accurate's online loading information lists 8 or 9 loads using AA 9 in the 10mm.
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Old June 5, 2011, 04:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
The pressure limits for the 40SW are just under 33,000 psi. You'll never see any flat primers at that pressure and if you do, you're living on the edge. I wonder why you chose the AA#9 powder though considering Accurate doesn't recommend it for the 40. It's too slow and that what I see in your brass- too slow powder used which is going to throw the pistol slightly out of time. If you're looking for premium performance that is ideal for the 40, look to Power Pistol powder.
Unless I'm blind it looks like bcotop is loading for a 10mm for whin AA#9 is a fine choice.
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Old June 5, 2011, 06:02 PM   #19
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Yes, I'm loading fo the 10mm. I picked up some blue dot powder today and made some loads. Seems to measure much easier in my powder measure, no leaks like A#9 does. The Wolff 22# spring is on theway, also got the 24# just for those heavy loads if need be.
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Old June 5, 2011, 07:45 PM   #20
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I guess I'm blind on the 40 SW. The load is for a 10mm with a 180 gr bullet. Now, again I ask, why did you use AA9 when it specifically states in Accurates #5 manual that AA#9 is not recommended for the 180 gr bullets? It's too slow and causes timing issues like you experienced. If you want to use AA9, you'll need to step up to heavier bullets like a 200gr. The Blue Dot loads will most likely work flawlessly without any mods to the gun but unless you are at max, Blue Dot can be dirty. There are much better powder choices out there without having to rebuild the gun.
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Old June 5, 2011, 08:04 PM   #21
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"Now, again I ask, why did you use AA9 when it specifically states in Accurates #5 manual that AA#9 is not recommended for the 180 gr bullets?"

Interesting, because Accurate's online loading manual lists the 180-gr. Hornady XTP with AA 9 powder -- 12.2 to 13.5 grains -- with a WLP primer.

The load bcotop used is, then, on the low end of Accurate's data for AA 9 powder.
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Old June 5, 2011, 08:57 PM   #22
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Well, being new at this I searched the forums to see what others were using. A#9 was popular, along with Blue Dot and Power Pistol. I then looked them up in Lees modern reloading and at the Accurate site where I downloaded the load data for Accurate. So I just picked Accurate #9 as it seemed the most used for 10mm. But it sure was hard to use, it leaked in my powder measure and was hard for me to get a consistent throw. Today I got some Blue Dot and it handles much better in my opinion, and I was able to be more consistent. I paired 9.7gr of Blue Dot with a 180gr FMJ. FMJ bullets are a lot easier to load than the XTPs were, at least for me.

Waiting for my new Wolff spring before I hit the range. I'll let everyone know how it does with the Blue Dot and FMJ bullets. I hope for some decent accuracy.

Loader9, what powder do you recommend for 10mm?
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Old June 5, 2011, 09:55 PM   #23
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I always used AA 7 in my 10mm.

AA powders are something of a pain because they do leak out of the Lee powder measures.

But, I got excellent results with AA 7 in both my 10 and my .41 Magnum.,

I've since gotten rid of my 10, but I still like AA 7 in the .41.
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Old June 6, 2011, 08:41 PM   #24
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Clark's makeshift 30-30 to 10mm... Clearly the brass has started to shear and very near the point of ripping open. This would send jets of high pressured gases through out the openings of the firearm, with the largest opening being the magazine well which is surrounded by the shooter's hand and fingers! OUCH!

Sevens, thanks for the reconition. I am glad your pistol, like mine benefited from the use of the 22# Wolff spring. I'd bet the OP will se the benefits as well!
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