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Old May 10, 2011, 10:33 AM   #1
cloud8a
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cap not going off on first strike

Bought a new nipple but cap goes off on second strike every time.
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Old May 10, 2011, 10:38 AM   #2
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Is the cap seated all the way down on the nipple? Perhaps the first strike is fully seating the cap, then the second is actually firing it. I had that problem with an older 1860 Uberti. Seating the cap with firm pressure from a wood dowel solved my problem. Well...that specific problem. If only my other problems could be solved with a wood dowel...
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Old May 10, 2011, 10:41 AM   #3
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Cap isn't getting fully seated before first strike. I had the same problem with a pietta 1858 remington revolver. I put the caps on tight once, then press them all again (with some authority). Not sure what you're shooting but you may want to try using a capping tool that will press them on tighter, or you could try a bigger cap. If you're using #10 now, try #11 caps. If 11 is too big, you can pinch them a bit and they'll stay on better.
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Old May 10, 2011, 10:43 AM   #4
Doc Hoy
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Try backing the nipple out about a quarter turn, maybe half turn. See if this corrects the problem.

If it does, compare the nipple with the other five, while all of the nipples are removed from the revolver. You may find a very minor difference in the length of the cone.

You might also be looking for a subtle difference in the diameter of the cone.

I do not recommend shooting the revolver more than once with the nipple backed out. You don't even have to load the powder and ball for this test and that is my recommendation.

The symptoms say, "improper seating of the cap on the nipple". But if it does it every time and if every other chamber works fine, then your capping technique is not likely the problem.
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Old May 10, 2011, 11:07 AM   #5
wogpotter
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You don't say which firearm the nipple is on, so this answer may not be too helpful.
First thought the thread may be correct, but the cone length may be incorrect. Are you 100% certain it is the exact correct nipple as opposed to one with the just the thread that fits?

Secondly Have you polished or buffed the cone as little ridges can hang up a cap?

Thirdly (& this applies to a revolver mostly) Have you thought of using the hammer WITH THE MUZZLE POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION! to seat the cap? I found this to cure a lot of ignition problems. What you do is slowly lower the hammer manually then push on it with the thumb effectively converting it to a primer seater.
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Old May 10, 2011, 11:09 AM   #6
aaronerman
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Could this be a cap issue and not the nipple? Have you been having success with other brand caps?
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Old May 10, 2011, 01:10 PM   #7
cloud8a
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Its for a cva 50 cal sidelock sorry. I was using reminton #11 i had real hard time getting the gun to fire at all. Bought new nipple and switched to winchester magnum caps. They fit loose and gun fired every other trigger pull. It got a little better when i tightened the drum a littlle
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Old May 10, 2011, 02:06 PM   #8
tpelle
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Unfortunately there does not seem to be very good industry standards on either the caps or the nipples. A Remington #11 is clearly not the same size as a CCI #11.

Also the nipples themselves can vary from gun to gun, even within the same manufacturer and model. I recently bought a brand-new Pietta 1860 Army, and this revolver would only function with Remington #11 caps. Unfortunately the only caps I had in quantity were CCI #10's. However I had a spare set of Pietta nipples from another older Pietta 1860, and when I test-fitted a CCI #10 on them it was perfect!

The cap needs to fit tightly on the nipple - if you have to pinch or squeeze the nipple it's not fitting right - and it needs to fit far enough on so that the priming compound inside the cap is against the top of the nipple so that the hammer strike can set it off.

Just my opinion, but I kind of like the CCI caps because they have a longer skirt, which seems to help keep them in place and provides a better gas seal against the nipple. Some nipples, however, have a more pronounced "cone" shape, and the long skirt on the CCI cap may bottom out against the taper of the nipple before the cap is fully seated. If that's the case, one technique is to chuck the threaded end of the nipple in a drill or drill press (don't chuck it on the threads, however), and hold a fine file against the shaft of the nipple. Remove just enough metal until the caps can be slid on and friction holds them. If I were going to do that, though, I'd buy a spare set of nipples and modify them. Heck, you may find that the replacement set works fine with the caps you have.

Keep in mind that my comments are written from the point of view of a revolver shooter. But also understand that having the caps fit correctly on the nipples is very important with a revolver. One thing that can happen with a revolver is a chain-fire, wherein when you fire the revolver several chambers may go off at once (which is why revolving-cylinder cap-and-ball carbines never became popular). It was always thought that this was due to the flash from the gap between the barrel and cylinder going down through the mouth of the cylinder past the ball and setting off the adjacent powder charge. A very good argument has emerged, however, that it may be more likely to occur from the nipple end, due to unfired caps either falling off under recoil or by the flash getting under the unfired cap and setting it off.
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Old May 10, 2011, 03:54 PM   #9
wogpotter
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Quote:
They fit loose and gun fired every other trigger pull. It got a little better when i tightened the drum a little
How about the face of the hammer? Is it possibly not square to & flush with the cone's tip when "fired"?
Most side-lock hammers I've seen have a lip around the face & its not easy to see the actual striking face itself. Does the hammer face actually contact the nipple fully?

How hard are you pushing the cap onto the nipple?
it should be a tight, not a loose fit. Sometimes you need a reasonable amount of force to seat the cap fully & some are (understandably) a bit under-assertive when capping.
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Old May 10, 2011, 04:13 PM   #10
cloud8a
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I don't push the cap hard in any way. I am scared it will go off. I just put the cap over the nipple.
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Old May 10, 2011, 04:24 PM   #11
Doc Hoy
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Sorry mate, I thunk you were talking about a revolver. Disregard everything I said in my post.

Nothing wrong with pushing the cap on until it is snug. I use the butt end of the Sharpie marker that I use for marking the target.

I find that things work best when I use a cap that needs to be pushed onto the nipple with firm pressure. The cap goes over the nipple and then stops but some additional pressure gets it to seat on the nipple. It probably only moves less than an additional sixteenth of an inch.

But remember that it has been about 25 years since I shot a rifle.
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Old May 10, 2011, 04:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
I don't push the cap hard in any way. I am scared it will go off. I just put the cap over the nipple.
And there is the source of your problem! Firmly push those caps on. They will fire more reliably and they don't go off from pressure. That's why they are called 'percussion' caps.
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Old May 10, 2011, 04:41 PM   #13
cloud8a
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Is there a way to describe how hard to push. Man Im really nervous about that.
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Old May 10, 2011, 05:03 PM   #14
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They WILL NOT go off with steady pressure.
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Old May 10, 2011, 05:06 PM   #15
cloud8a
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Ok thanks, I will push them down next time or get a capper.
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Old May 10, 2011, 05:18 PM   #16
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I have never read instructions on just how hard you should seat a #11 cap. Nor have I ever seen any warnings on doing so. .....

Now, as in any shooting sports and well as other sports, consistancy is the name of the game, especially in shooting M/L's. Through the years each and everyone of us has developed our own technique and although there are common elements, none are identicle. Now, if you want to keep laying the caps on the nipple and having to strike it twice, then stick with that as it works and addresses you safety concerns. .....

Might I suggest you get a book by Sam Fadala or equal or find a mentor to work with. Above all, this world of M/L's is suppose to be fun. Find a way to do so and you will gain confidence and eventually succeed .....


Have fun and;
Be Safe !!!
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Old May 10, 2011, 07:04 PM   #17
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Caps are not pressure sensitive. I've used a wooden dowel and put all the pressure I could on one trying to make it go off and couldn't do it. A capper won't seat a cap, it's not strong enough. I use my thumb but you can use a wood dowel or even lower the hammer and use thumb pressure on the hammer.
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Old May 10, 2011, 08:43 PM   #18
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I had a problem like that with my shotgun while I was shooting a trap match, even after lowering the hammer on the cap and pushing down on the hammer before cocking the hammer and shooting, I sometimes needed a second hammer strike to make the cap go off. I can't afford this kind of unreliability because we are only allowed two malfunctions per match, after that, a misfire is a lost bird.
Finally, I examined the box of caps I was using and they were size 10, not 11. Changed over to size 11 and not a single misfire for the rest of the day.
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Old May 11, 2011, 07:26 AM   #19
wogpotter
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There we go got you sorted out.
I've been pushing them with my thumb, using a capper with a lot of thumb pressure & forcing the hammer on to them to get a 100% seating fit & haven't had one go off yet.
I don't think it is possible to fire one with pressure you have to have a sharp strike impact to get them to fire. Try the hammer seating method, if you're still concerned. In the very unlikely event one goes off the hammer will protect your thumb.
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