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Old April 11, 2011, 09:44 AM   #1
Newton24b
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michigan laws on black powder handguns

this is a nice little reply i got in the mail today from the state of michigan. its real enjoyable.




There was a statutory change in May of 2004 which exempted black powder muzzleloading handguns from the purchase permit requirement. The only black powder pistols that require the permit are ones that can be modified to also chamber a modern cartridge. According to statutory definition, a black powder pistol is still classified as a firearm, and is subject to restrictions on transporting or carrying concealed without a concealed pistol license.

Federal law does not classify black powder muzzleloading handguns as firearms. Therefore, they are not subject to the restrictions on shipping over state lines to an individual's residence. As long as UPS or FedEx will accept them for shipping, there is no state or federal law that would prohibit it.



so because of you guys and those fun little cartridge conversion units from kirst and r&d, a colt walker still needs a permit to purchase. what fun.
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Old April 11, 2011, 10:30 AM   #2
Hardcase
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Well, I appreciate the sentiment, but it's not because of us guys. It's because of you guys and the interesting people that you elect to your legislature.
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Old April 11, 2011, 10:56 AM   #3
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Now I know there's another state with more wacko laws than Commyfornia. And Hardcase is right, they keep voting for the same legislators every year, the same guys who are anti gun and anti business.

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Old April 11, 2011, 01:27 PM   #4
4V50 Gary
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Sounds like Commiefornia. At one time, any bullet that could be used in a handgun had to be signed for. When the T/C Contender came out, Commiefornia decided that any caliber the Contender was chambered had to be included. Not surprisingly, crime did not go down because of the law.

BTW, I never vote for the same scallywag twice. (S)he stole enough money the first time. Often times, the person I vote for loses anyway.
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Old April 11, 2011, 08:09 PM   #5
Shotput79
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Scum scum scum

Watch, Study, Know, The people, we VOTE into office. They will have you in court for making out with your wife / Husband, if they want. They do anything they want. Once we let the dogs in the house, it's hard to get them out. Anyone that voted for the scum that's in office now. I don't feel the least bit sorry for you. Have a nice bite of crow, to go with that tar coffee.
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Old April 11, 2011, 10:15 PM   #6
bedbugbilly
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Newton - thanks for that update. My residence is in MI but I winter in AZ and I hadn't heard about this one. That's one nice thing out here in AZ . . . the gun laws are less restrictive and a lot of the politicians at least use some common sense about it . . . well, mostly. I'm in southern AZ . . . about 45 miles north of the border . . . you know . . . the giant sieve for illegals to make their way north so they can smuggle in drugs, two legged coyotes can take advantage of those illegals who try to get in, a giant desert where bandits roam to rip off the smugglers and they have special teams that go out just to stop them (wouldn't want a smuggler to get ripped off) . . . . so that those that do make it across illegally can be supported by all of us taxpayers footing the bill for free education, free medical care and even social security!? We, the taxpayers, foot the bill for billions to try and keep the border secure and then our national govt. won't enforce the immigration laws . . . let's face it . . . no matter what level most of the politicians are on . . state or federal . . . they forget who put them in office the day after they are sworn in. That's why I'm a big supporter for every politician serving two terms . . the first in office . . . the second in jail. God help us.
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Old April 11, 2011, 10:46 PM   #7
joe sixgun
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I don't think that rule applies until the conversion has taken place. I buy all my BP revolvers from a VERY reputable dealer in West MI and never need a permit or even fill out the fed form. So there must be an exception in the law for replicas.
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Old April 12, 2011, 12:35 AM   #8
Mr.Guido
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Quote:
michigan laws on black powder handguns

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

this is a nice little reply i got in the mail today from the state of michigan. its real enjoyable.




There was a statutory change in May of 2004 which exempted black powder muzzleloading handguns from the purchase permit requirement. The only black powder pistols that require the permit are ones that can be modified to also chamber a modern cartridge. According to statutory definition, a black powder pistol is still classified as a firearm, and is subject to restrictions on transporting or carrying concealed without a concealed pistol license.

Federal law does not classify black powder muzzleloading handguns as firearms. Therefore, they are not subject to the restrictions on shipping over state lines to an individual's residence. As long as UPS or FedEx will accept them for shipping, there is no state or federal law that would prohibit it.



so because of you guys and those fun little cartridge conversion units from kirst and r&d, a colt walker still needs a permit to purchase. what fun.

Relax Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling yet.

Whomever you got this from is either confusing State and Federal definitions for antique firearms, or is simply ignorant of the applicable MI statutes.

The following is the actual text of the law, not some secretary's convoluted interpretation.

MCL 750.231a

Quote:
(2) As used in this section:

(a) "Antique firearm" means either of the following:

(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.

(ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
I suggest you contact your source and request them to support their contention with reference to statute or binding court decisions. I suspect you will encounter some awkward back peddling.
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Old April 12, 2011, 02:03 AM   #9
Newton24b
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I emailed for clarification at 10 am this morning, and my contact responed almost instantly. I did not get online for 15 hours since. here is what my contact responded with.

"I need to reword my response: I should have said "The only black powder pistols that require the permit are ones that HAVE been converted to chamber a modern cartridge." instead of CAN be converted. I hope that clarifies this better."

And my contact is the one that the michigan state website provided when i emailed the michigan state police customer support email. The very helpful official turned out to be one of the highest ranked officials in the firearms division of the state police.
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Old April 12, 2011, 02:52 AM   #10
Newton24b
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contact returned reply to a follow up email i asked of what handguns were allowed. the statute is that "black powder handguns do NOT need a purchase permit unless it has been converted to use modern cartridges"

my contact is a manager in the michigat state police firearms division
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Old April 12, 2011, 07:05 AM   #11
mykeal
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I'm glad your contact corrected his mistake. I was about to get on the phone for another rant with my friends in Lansing. Anyone can make a mistake, and it's good to see they recognized it and corrected it.
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Old April 12, 2011, 02:09 PM   #12
Shotput79
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Glad to hear it's straight for now. Just give it time. The fox is still in the hen house. As for the border thing. That should make every person take note when our trusted Law Persons sell war AKs, M16, what ever the heck they want to send to them, and arm our people with RUBBER BULLETS, and get them killed for trying to do there jobs. I say those people that sent those firearms down there, should be bought up on MURDER charges. OH I forgot ,they have a get out of jail free card. If you can't tell I'm mad as heck. I got to get out ah here, for I tell you what I really got in mind. OH you would never get to read it, they would take it off the form so fast, then band me. Set down, put on the song, "Simple Man", turn it up real loud. Take and let every word set in. NO I didn't hear it in church last Sunday. Might not be ah bad idea.
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Old April 12, 2011, 06:12 PM   #13
bedbugbilly
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Thanks for hashing that out and getting it clarified . . it's appreciated by us "Michiganders". I winter in AZ and am back in MI during the summer . . I hadn't heard of any changes but I don't read MI newspapers, etc. either. I just took a class this past Sunday out here which covered a lot of Arizona's statures . . and like anywhere else, they are changing every so often . . fortunately for the time being, they are more lenient . . but give it time. At any rate . . as said . . . mistakes can be made or just using a different word in a reply like that can change the interpretation . . . thanks for clearing it up and having the source clarify it. It's appreciated! And by the way, the one thing they stressed in the class I just took was that any statute, regardless of how it is written, can be interpreted differently by different people. It only becomes clarified when it is tested in court and we all know that if it comes to that, it's going to be how the judge interpretates it. If you ask three different lawyers for an opinion . . . you'll probably get three different answers. After all, we're working with human beings.
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