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Old March 30, 2011, 08:41 PM   #26
Woodyed
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ipscchef----When I said by custom bullet makers I was referring to Berger, Nosler, Swift, or Barnes. My principle game animal that I hunt now are deer, but I have in past years hunted Moose in Canada. Have taken a couple of Moose (bull & cow) using 30-06 and Core-lok bullets that I handloaded. All one shot kills also.

Ol'Coot---- I also have a few years under my belt hunting and reloading. I'm 77 now and have been hunting since I was 14. Been reloading for about 55 years now so I'm not a greenhorn at that either. In respect to your statement about making a bad shot and having a much better chance of retrieving the animal because it was a premium 60 cent or more bullet that was used, I have to wonder what enhanced quality was in that bullet that can't be found in a regular Core-lok or Interlock bullet and still wouldn't have the same end result. A bad shot is a bad shot no matter how you slice it or whether it's a 19 cent bullet or a 60 cent one and the only thing that might possibly make a difference is how the bullet mushroomed, what tissue or organs were damaged, where the animal was hit, and amount of penetration. I haven't seen or experienced any difference between 19 cent and 60 cent bullets in any of these instances and that is why I stick with Core-lok's or Interlocks. I have used Nosler and Barnes bullets in past years and I have failed to see any significant difference in performance or visual inspection of recovered bullets or wound channels inflicted.
So to each his own, if you like the premium bullets and can afford them then by all means use them. I personally can't afford them as I have to save my money for gas. Damn oil prices anyway.

Last edited by Woodyed; March 30, 2011 at 08:55 PM.
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Old March 30, 2011, 11:24 PM   #27
ipscchef
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Woodyed, I agree with most of your last post, but I am not sure what point you are trying to make, other than you like CoreLocts', and possibly Interlocks.
I still do not understand why you are trying to differentiate between Hornady and Nosler. they both produce the same range of bullets in the same weights and calibers, with about the same martketing, sales strategy, and technologies. And they roughly share the same amount of the market.
You seem to be prepossesed with the opinion that CorLocts are the best bullet for the money. That is fine! They are a very good, well proven design that have taken countless heads of game over a very long span. I think everyone will agree with that. I have done informal testing of bullets over the years, and I do mean informal! But I have seen CorLocts shed their jackets when fired into hard Locust wood logs, that other bullets have not. They act much like the Winchester Silvertips, another very fine bullet IMHO, in that regard.
I could not agree with you more about the *&@#$! price of a gallon of gas these days. I live out in the middle of nowhere, I have to drive 21 miles just to get to a gas station!.
Again, I am not sure what your point is. You do seem to be very knowlegable about the subject, but is your point that you can get a .19 cent bullet to do the same thing as a .60 cent bullet to do? I would agree with you about 85-95% of the time. But again, if I am on the hunt of a lifetime, that I paid several thousand dollars for, the very least of my worries should be whether my bullets cost me $15 or $55 a box. Wheras, If I did not have what I thought to be the VERY BEST bullet available, It would worry me greatly when the moment of truth came. If, God forbid, I made what I thought was a good, clean shot, and the animal got away, It would haunt me for a very, very long time, weather or not my saving a couple of bucks on a bullet may have cost me the trophy of a lifetime. And yes, there are times when a premium bullet can make the difference. Ask any African PH. Poor bullet choice can mean life or death to these people, and it has, many times.
My bottom line here is, are you shooting that many bullets that the difference between the price of CorLocts' and the price of Speers, Hornadys',
Noslers', or any brand for that matter will make a difference in your finances?
If that is the case, then I envy you, as you must get to shoot more than I ever hope to!
One final note. From the April/ May Natchez caltalog;

Hornady Interlocks; 180gr. .308, $24.03/100

Nosler Accubonds; 180gr. .308, $25.99/50
Yes there is a price difference, but if you shoot say, 500 rounds per year, and I think that is a lot, You will spend $120 on the Hornadys' and $251 on the Noslers. Over the course of a year that works out to about $10 a month.
I mean no disrespect to you, quite the opposite, but these are my thoughts.
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Old March 31, 2011, 08:49 AM   #28
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Hi ipscchef,
The only differentiation I make between the Nosler and the Core-lok is the price. And you are right, I am prepossesed with the opinion that Core-lok and Interlock bullets are 2 of the best bullets within their price range, and that have cores locked to the jackets. I'm sure that you have noticed in reading my posts that all I was concerned about was the price difference between the premium bullets and the core locked bullets and were they for the price difference, that much better in performance or the end result of killing the animal. I hope you are not reading anything else into my posts as this was not intended. I fully concur that the premium bullets are very good if you can afford them and want to pay the price difference. As I have also stated, I've personally never seen any substantial difference in performance or end results between the premium bullets and the Remington/Hornady bullets. You obviously have and probably others have so this is what creates the demand for these bullets. That's what nice about having a large selection of bullets on the market for hunters and shooters to choose from. And you are right, I do shoot a lot and am continuously working up loads for many different calibers and experimenting with different powder and bullet combinations. I have a 350 yard range on my property and hate to even guess how much lead is in the ground on it.
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Old March 31, 2011, 02:00 PM   #29
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I like both the CoreLokt, and the Hornady Interlocks, however they are different. The Partition bullet is different, They all penetrate and perform well even if the shot placement ain't the very best, these bullets do respectable damage. Accubonds I understand penetrate like a partition but I have not tried them. I've killed many deer with the CL's, only one with the Hornady 139 BTSP Interlock, two with a Nosler 140 grn Partition(.270 win), and several with 150 Ballistic tips (3006) and the 130 Ballistic Tips (.270 win). I'm working on a loading for my 7mm Rem Mag in the 150 gr Ballistic tips, and there will (if I can get good dope with THE new loading)some 150 Partitions loaded also for elk and larger than deer game.
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Old March 31, 2011, 02:49 PM   #30
ipscchef
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Woodyed

No, I do not think I reas anything into your posts that was not there, and I apologize if I seemed to be confrontational.
I do agree with 99.9% of what you are saying. The CorLoct bullet is one of the all time classic designs, It has been around a very long time for good reason, it works. And the Interlock is another fine design, that in my opinion, fills in the gap where I would prefer a stronger, more ballisticaly efficient design would be preferable, to me anyway.
I think the only point where we diverge on our opinions is that I class the CorLoct as a " Standard " design, and lump the Interlock with the Noslers, Speers, and Sierra's. And again, in my opnion, unless you are shooting a tremendous amount, the cost of a box of bullets is less of a factor to me when I am making a descision on what to buy, compared to how well the bullet performs. Although if I were limited to just the CorLoct and Interbond bullets, I would be satisfied that between the two I could use one or the other to suit any need that arose.
Just to give one example, I am going to be working up a load this spring for my .300 Weatherby, and will be using the Interbond and Accubond, as opposed to the CorLoct. This is because of the better long range flight characteristics of those two ever the Remington bullet. And I believe those two will hold up a little better when hitting bone on a very large animal, say a Bull Elk, or Large Brownie. I would like to hear your opnions on this.
I can sqeeze out a little over three hundred yards at my range in my backyard, and I consider us both to be very lucky fellas to have that capability on our own property!.
It looks like you live in New York State, I live in South Central Pa., Maybe someday we can get together to do some shooting!
Anyway I have enjoyed our discussions and hope to speak with you more in the future.
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Old March 31, 2011, 03:41 PM   #31
William T. Watts
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I think we all dig our heels in when we've made our choices about the products we use, personally I do not like Cor/lokt or Winchester Power Point. They are both decent game bullets, the problem I can't get either to give acceptable accuracy in my rifles, My definition of accuracy is at or near 1", both the Solid Base and Partition will produce this out my bolt action rifles. I'll state again I use Remington or Power Points for plinking or for punching paper because of costs, I'll save the Partitions for hunting, I'm grateful we have product choices, when it comes to hunting I want to know I have put together the very best combination that will give me the best chance of taking game home. I like products that exceed my expectations and Nosler certainly does that. William
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Old March 31, 2011, 05:08 PM   #32
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The real question is can you plink with a less expensive bullet and get accuracy acceptable enough for hunting? Why practice with a load that you're not going to use on a practical basis? If you need the more expensive "premium" bullet to be accurate enough for your hunting trip, how often can you practice with it to become accustomed to the trajectory at various distances? I tend practice with what I hunt with, and that's why things boil down to Remington CorLok and Hornady Interlock. One or the other is usually accurate enough in my collection of rifles that I don't have to wander into the more expensive areas. I have experimented with Nosler and Barnes, Speer and Sierra over the years when the first two were more affordable.

Now, there is no argument that one will occasionally need the premium bullet depending on the game pursued. But for most occasions, the less expensive bullets fill the bill. I had a 300 yard shot at a Bull Elk with a 175gr Hornady Interlock in 7mm RM and he dropped like a rock and stayed down until we went to get him. Then he got up and stumbled down the hill. The bullet broke his shoulder but went no further. We collected him with another shot at that point. My next trip was a 200 yard Elk bull but I used a "standard" 215gr Sierra in .338 WM - the shot went straight through and broke both shoulders and he dropped on the spot.
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Old March 31, 2011, 05:38 PM   #33
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Quote:
But I have seen CorLocts shed their jackets when fired into hard Locust wood logs, that other bullets have not.
so... did the Locust log get away, or not?

sorry... had to ask...

I fully understand using an unusual medium to compare bullets and how they react under similar circumstances... it just struck me funny...

I shot a young maple tree once with my Mosin Nagant that was about 18" or so through the trunk, just to see what would happen. That fmj might STILL be going, for all I know.... it blew right on through a freakin MAPLE tree. I would have never believed it if I hadn't done it..... which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Interlock debate.
To me, if a bullet doesn't shed its jacket under "normal" stress of shooting an animal, which includes driving through heavy shoulder bones, then it's fine for me. The heavier the animal, the tougher the bullet needs to be. The 6.5 Interlocks have NEVER failed for me, in deer sized game.
That's still my story, and I'm stickin to it.....
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Old March 31, 2011, 08:06 PM   #34
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the Log did get up and start to limp away but I was able to anchor it with another round.
On a slightly more serious note, I understand Woodyed's point of view, I just do not agree wwith him 100%, like I stated. My favorite bullets these days are also Noslers, I guess like William T. Watts. I am the "designated Handloader for about a half dozen of my friends. For rifles I am loading for three .270's, two .30-06's, a couple of .44mags, and two .45 Colts Leverguns, and a partrige in a pear tree, sorry -I had to do that!
Anyway for the .270's and the 30-06's, I am using Nolser Ballistic Tips in 130gr and 180gr, respectively, and they hit the deer like Thors' Hammer. Not to mention that all of these guns group under an inch. So that fills the Bill for us.
cdoc42, thank you for the real world info about your experience with the Interlock on Elk. As I stated earlier, I am going to develop a load for my .300 Weatherby to use as a long range, "Big Critter Gitter", and although that is only one instance, it may make me go with another bullet. As much as I love the Partitions, I cannot get them to group under 2" in said gun. Oddly the best factory groups I get are with... wait for it,.. Remington CorLocts! About 3/4"., but the velocity is down by over 250fps. and again I want a more solidly constructed bullet for the task. I was considering the Interlock, but from what was just said, I don't know now. The Accubond 180gr. bullets shoot lights out in my gun, velocity and accuracy are stunning, but if it hits heavy bone... The issues with my Weatherby are twofold, it is a 24"Bbl, and it has a one in 12" twist, so I have to relly work to get velocity, although I have been successful, with 180gr. pills. The twist will not give me great accuracy with any 200gr. bullets. And no, I would not trade or sell this gun for all the Tea in China.. well maybe if I got ALL of the tea. But she is a magnificent 1971 German built left hand example of what Gun Crafstmanship can be. I just need to find the perfect 180gr. bullet. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. That is one of the reasons I love TFL, the amount of combined knowlege here is staggering.
Before I forget, HornetGuy, that is some penetration, 18" through live Maple!?
That is the 7.62x54 Russion, I think? No wonder they scared the s&*#$ out of the Nazis! If I had not bablled on so long already, I would like to talk with you about the 6.5 in general, and in particular about my freinds 6.5 Jap with 160gr. bullets that resemble Torpedoes! Hopelfully we can discuss that sometime soon.
we live in truly great times for shooters of all stripes, just to be able to have a discussion like this, talking about the endless choices of rifles, bullets, powders, and other components, shows that we truly live a geniune Golden Age. I hope we can all appreciate it and fight to preserve it, for I fear it will not last forever. Let us enjoy it to the fullest while we can!
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Old March 31, 2011, 08:14 PM   #35
William T. Watts
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If all I had access to were standard bullets I.E. Cor/lokts and Hornady bullets I would adjust and do fine, the heart lung area on a deer is quite large and not difficult to hit. When I harvest an animal I usually do a Post Mortem to check bullet performance. I've seen Sierra bullets blow up and never penatrate, Hornady that never opened up and put a tiny hole all the thru an animal and Remington Cor/Lokts that shed their jacket (frontal shot thru the brisket) with the lead core penetrating. Obviously the deer were hit multiple times and or I had a long chase to recover the animal. I have never had a problem with Nosler Solid Base or Partition bullet terminal perormance and is the primary reason I switched and have used them exclusively for hunting for the last 25-30 years. All of my experiences were many years ago and these products no doubt have been improved.. This is why I use Nosler bullets! William
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Old March 31, 2011, 09:11 PM   #36
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ok first of all i do not like doing this. i hate the debates on which bullets will kill and which won't. they all kill. no. not well if i was going on a lifetime hunt blah blah blah. they all kill. if you want a tipped explosive bullet, nosler ballistic tips hornady ssts or rem accutips are going to perform the same on animals. you want a spire point get coreloks spitzers interlocks etc. they are going to perform the same on animals. you want bonded get accubond interbond etc. they will all perform the same on game. shoot the one in the type of bullet you want that shoots the most accurate. if i am hunting nearly everything in north america a regular spire point is perfect. grizzly i would go with bonded. something i don't want to take a step and don't care about wasted meat on thin skinned go with a tipped bullet. all tipped bullets are very very explosive unless they are bonded. yes even nosler BALLISTIC TIPS! first buck i shot with one was a damn nice 11pointer and it destroyed the front half of him. granted it was an 8 yard shot, but the next one was around 110 yards and it didn't fare much better. don't worry about what other people tell you about brand a or b or x or y. if something bad did happen with a particular bullet, it was either the wrong bullet for the game, the shot placement 98% of the time, or an underpowered gun.
ok now i am ready for the excuses and the bashing. just let me slide my gloves on real quick. no i am not calling anyone a liar. but the three things i named account for more than 99% of all bullet failures. not the bullets fault. try to use a ballistic tip to shoot through a tank. not gonna work. or use a fmj to shoot a deer NO EXPANSION.
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Old March 31, 2011, 09:54 PM   #37
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Hi Willy,
Regarding your developing a load for the 300 Weatherby have you tried the Hornady 180 gr. Interbond #30709? It has a BC of 480 and looks like it would do a number on the big bones of an Elk or Moose. Naturally any of the slow powders ( H4831, IMR4831, IMR4350, H4350, etc,) work the best in this caliber but I'm sure you are fully aware of this. You might try these Interbonds and they might even give you more accuracy than the Core-loks (GOD I hated to say that!!). I see that you have already tried the Noslers but seem to be dissatisfied with them so let me also suggest that you might consider Barnes bullets. I haven't been overly satisfied with Barnes bullets but you might like them.
I guess I'm just a Remington Core-lok fan and only in the past 3 years have started to use Hornady Interlocks. For many, many years I've had such good luck with Remington Core-loks on deer and Moose that I've been reluctant to even hunt these animals with anything else. I've used Sierra pro-hunter bullets on deer in my 7mm-08's and I have no complaints with them at all as they performed admirably also.
Something that really hasn't been mentioned much in all any of these posts is the subject of "shot placement". I firmly believe that if a shot is placed in the boiler room of an animal that it's "all over" for that animal whether the bullet was a standard or a premium bullet. I guess there might be instances
where the bullet hits a shoulder blade and doesn't penetrate into the boiler room but usually the shoulder bone is broken anyway and does much internal damage to organs within the boiler room. I myself have hit deer in the shoulder but the bullet went thru the shoulder bone and into the boiler room. Been lucky I guess. God bless those Core-loks anyway.
Maybe getting together to do some shooting in the future Willy might be a good idea. We both will have to dwell on this idea when the weather gets better and maybe gas will be cheaper too.
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Old April 1, 2011, 01:28 AM   #38
ipscchef
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Hey Woodyed!

Funny you should mention the Barnes Bullets. I have not had a chance to try them, nor have any of my shooting buddies, but just after my last post I started thinking that hey may be a very good solution. In years past I was very wary of them becuase of a few issues, ie; different pressure curves and a reputation of not being very accurate. But from what I have read and seen lately, the new TTSX's? appear to have overcome the accuracy issue to the point of being quite good long range tack drivers.
Before we conlude our discussion, I would like to take a few sentances to respond to the comments made by "JWilson48'
JWilson, thank you for your comments. I do think everyone on this thread understands that if one shoots a game animal with most any rifle caliber bullet that the animal will eventualy die. That is not what is being discussed here, we all know that already. What we are trying to discern is which particular bullet will be the most efficient and humane in a given situation. The idea is not just to make sure that the animal dies, but that it expires quickly, and that the bullet chosen will do its part under the given circumstances. I am most certainly not an expert, but I have been involed with hunting for many many years. I have seen a situation where a 12 point Buck was shot four times by a friend with his 25-06, two of those hit the Heart and Lungs, the other two broke up on his shoulder and hip bones, on the 1000 acre spread where 12 of us were hunting we had to stop our hunt to find the animal, which had run almost 1/2 mile before expiring. Had just one of the other two bullets broken a hip or shoulder, the deer would have not gotten nearly as far. And yes you are right, the animal did die, wonder of wonders.
In addition I did note that the Ballistic Tip is a very explosive bullet. But having done "Field Autopsies" on over two dozen deer taken with Ballistic Tips alone in .270 and 30-06, I have not yet encountered one that "ruined half the deer"
I will not bore you with any more of my hunting experiences, but none of them involved shooting at a tank with a Ballistic Tip. Are you certain that they will not penetrate a tank? Darn, another boyhood myth ground into the dirt! And No one here spoke of using a FMJ to hunt with, all of the people here most likely know that doing so would not only be unethical, it would just be downright stupid.
In closing, your first sentances indicated that you did not like to join in such discussions. I would like to apologize to you for forcing you into doing something that you "Hated" to do. Please feel free to refrain from continuing further.
Woodyed, it sounds like you have good reason to trust your CoLocts! Again, I did not mean to disparage your choice of bullets, and if you are getting good results with them on Moose, well I think your track record with them speaks for itself. My son lives in Vermont and has just recently gotten the "Hunting Bug". He has been down here the last couple of years and has taken four deer(with MY rifle, I may add) and now wants me to come up there to hunt. It will be a great expereince but I told him that while I would love to take one of the jumbo Whitetails, I am not sure I am up to gutting out something the size of my pickup!( Moose)
You are right that we have not really gone into shot placement until now. This may be the "Three Hundred Pound Gorilla" in the room. The thing that worries me most is the difference between hitting say, one of your giant Mooses in the ribcage and hitting it on the peak of the shoulder. There would be a great difference in what the given bullet would have to deal with. And If you are using your 7mm-08, it might have a harder time getting through that shoulder bone. Now if you are talking about even a very big whitetail with your 7mm-08 and CorLocts, I believe that it would be more than up to the task of getting through heavy bone, and like you have stated, I have seen where my 30-30 with Win Silvertips did not really go through the shoulder of a deer, but turned the bone into a "Frag Grenade"
I am in the proccess of trying to get the money together to buy him a Marlin 336 in 30-30, as that is what he wants. It will mostly be used for Deer, but do you think it is adequate for Moose? I do quite a bit of handloading and can make up just about anything for the gun, but since you have actualy hunted Moose successfully, I would like your recommendations for a "Moose Load" for the 30-30, if there is such a thing. Heck, I would even load CorLocts if you said that it was the right bullet.
I have babbled long enough for one post. I would like to hear your thoughts when you have time. Good talking to you.
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Old April 1, 2011, 01:43 AM   #39
FrankenMauser
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I'm trying to read these posts... but it's difficult.

Can we get some paragraphs, please?


Please?

I do want to read what you've typed. It's just very difficult, when it's all lumped together in a wall of text.
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Old April 1, 2011, 02:10 AM   #40
ipscchef
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FrankenMauser

Point taken.
I am guilty of the same thing I tend to grip about.
My construction has fallen off somewhat. I will work on it.
But seriously, while it is not great, but I have seen worse on TFL, though that is not an excuse.
This is a good thread ,IMHO, that may get better before it is done, and construction aside, I think it is worth the read.
Willy

FrankenMauser,
I have just noticed something, when my writings get posted, What you are reading does not reflect my paragraph breaks! I am not making this up. None of my breaks are being reflected the way that I write them.
Check it out for yourself. It is the way that they are being shown on the forum, that is not the way I have written them. See for yourself.
Is this something I am doing wrong? Or is it the way the forum is formatted?
See what you think after writing a post and then see how it is presented.
Please tell me what you think, although I do not want to hijack this thread, as it is getting more interesting. And I have more thoughts to convey to the OP.
Willy
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Old April 1, 2011, 10:24 AM   #41
Woodyed
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Hi Frankenmauser,
I also will try to construct my posts so that you can read them. Would like you to join in as I'm sure you could add much info to the discussions.

Hi Willy,
Here's my take on the Marlin lever action 30-30 for your son. I would be very leery of the 30-30 caliber and I have 2 reasons. First one is knock down power and second is the effective range of a 30-30, which is usually under 200 yards. I might add also, that up in Vermont Moose are gaining a very good foothold and this State and might just open a season on them if they haven't already. In case this does happen I think your son would be better equiped with a larger caliber than a 30-30. If it's a lever action he wants I would look at Marlins 336 in 35 caliber at the minimum or maybe even the 308MX or 338MX. These calibers would have much more punch, penetration, and knock-down power than a 30-30 in case he got a shot at a Moose.

I have some friends that live in Maine and they hunt Moose almost every year. Several of them swear by the 30-06's and a couple of them have always used Marlins 338MXLR's in 338 Marlin express caliber. None of them have missed getting their Moose and they praise the guns and calibers that they are using. Can't argue with success. I might add that several of them have taken black bears with their guns as well.

Well, this is just my outlook on you getting your son a lever action rifle in 30-30 caliber and you might not agree with anything I've said, but here it is anyway. Good luck on whatever you choose.
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Old April 1, 2011, 06:08 PM   #42
ipscchef
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Again, we agree.

Hi there Woodyed!
I agree with you 100%. But he is adamant about getting a 30-30 for his first hunting long gun. He has complained about how my 30-06 is such a cannon and he does not like the recoil. This, coming from a thirty eight year old man who is six foot tall and weighs 300lbs!, He played Offensive and Defensive line in college and intermural football. I am half his size and have no such problems with recoil. Go figure.

I have suggested just what you have said but he has his heart set on a Marlin 30-30. what I think I am giong to do is for Christmas, get him a bolt gun in something like .308 Win, I would love to get him, and myself for that matter, one of the new Marlins, I think they are really good looking guns, and they seem to be very practical in addition. but current funds rule them out for now I would like to get myself one in .338. one of these days when I have
the money.

I am considering the new, economy priced Marlin Bolt actions. I have seen them as low as $299 or so with a basic scope on them, and that should be within reach for me money wise by the holidays. I think that the .308 is about as small as I would want to go for Moose, but do think it would be adequate for them. What are your thoughts?

I would like to thank FrankenMauser again for his help, and will say that if he wanted to jump in, that would be great. He is one of the people here who always seems to be able to bring something to the table. As opposed to some others.
Willy
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Old April 1, 2011, 08:19 PM   #43
Walkalong
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Join Date: May 30, 2007
Location: Al.
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I like the Core-Lokt bullets. They have worked for many, many years.
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Old April 1, 2011, 09:14 PM   #44
jwilson48
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Join Date: February 17, 2011
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hahahahaha!!! no hard feelings bud. i just KNOW all hunting bullets can kill ethically when put in the boiler room. my point was simply go for the "type" of bullet you want with the best accuracy and you will have a killer load as long as knockdown power is adequate.

as far as your son goes with his 30-30 that was also my first centerfire. killed atleast 15 deer with it. never had one go further than 60 yards. it is however an outdated cartridge and range is very limited.

why don't you talk to him about getting a rifle like a 7mm-08? or a .284 win? both have substantially more knockdown power than a 30-30 but very similar recoil. a good pad and you can put 100 rounds through without getting tired of shooting. my 5ft nothing 115 lb wife loves shooting the 7mm-08.

have him go to chuck hawks recoil table and he can see how hard each gun kicks then check out chuck hawks trajectory. also big game info ballistic calculator is a great resource. he can see how flat a gun shoots, energy, optimal game weight, maximum point blank range etc. i have used the specs off of different calibers before in helping me decide what my next gun would be. haven't been disappointed yet.
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Old April 1, 2011, 09:28 PM   #45
Woodyed
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Hi Willy,
Your choice regarding Marlins X7 series rifles is a good one. I not only sell them but I have 3 in my personal collection, a 30-06, 270, and a 7mm-08. They are an accurate shooting rifle with a very smooth action very much like the Tikka's. They also have an excellent adjustable trigger. If you don't like the composite stocks (black and camo), you can buy a Boyds wooden or laminated stock, both of which are beautiful. I can highly recommend the X7 series of rifles.

In regard to a caliber in the X7 series line a 308 is a good choice. I instead would pick the 7mm-08 over the 308 if it were me. I have 2 reasons for saying this and they are that the 7mm-08 has a flater trajectory over longer distances and has less recoil than the 308. If your son is recoil concious then he will appreciate this factor. In fact I would say that the recoil from a 7mm-08 should be about the same as a 30-30. The 7mm-08 bullet also has higher energy retention at the longer ranges.

If you reload for the 7mm-08 I would use Hornady's Interbond 154 gr. bullet, especially if a moose was encountered. I would have no hesitation whatsoever with using this combination on any moose or elk. In fact I'm giving serious consideration on using this load on my next moose hunt.

Have a good day and good luck with your son's rifle.

Last edited by Woodyed; April 1, 2011 at 09:34 PM.
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Old August 22, 2013, 10:17 AM   #46
andora
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Join Date: August 22, 2013
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Best .243 bullet for Margianal hit on whitetail

I have a very specific situation and I am looking on getting some advice on what would be the best bullet to use.

I bought a savage .243 for my son (9) and daughter (10) to use to hunt whiletail deer in Pennsylvania. The typical weight for doe is 70 to 100 lbs. A typical buck is 95 to 125 lbs, with a mature buck being 150 to 175 lbs. Yes, you can get larger buck, but, they are uncommon. In Pennsylvania, most deer are kill inside 100 yards.

I not concerned about a good shot, because the deer will be dead. I am also not concern about a bad shoot, because in all probability the deer will not be recover by typical tracking and recovery techniques.

The focus is on a marginal shoot, because with kids it would not be an uncommon occurrence. Yes, my kids practice a lot and shoot very well for their age, but, they are only 9 and 10.

With a marginal shot I am presuming we will be tracking the deer. Fyi … I do a lot of archery hunting and have a lot of experience tracking deer. In Pennsylvania, dogs are not permitted to track deer. From my tracking experience, a general rule of thumb, the less distance a deer travels before dying, the more likely you are to recover it. In addition, the more it bleeds, the easier it is to track and recover. That translates in expansion / damage (shorter distance) and penetration / damage (shorter distance, plus an exit hole that produces more blood). I am a big fan off exit holes, especially when hunting from a treestand, because exit hole is typically lower on the body of the deer then the entrance hole, thus it typically drops more blood to the ground.

I am going to define two different types of marginal shots with different characteristics and I am looking for a bullet that can perform well in both scenarios.

Scenario 1 - Hitting the Shoulder Blade
Being a .243, penetration is key. With adequate penetration, this would not be considered a marginal hit, however, without adequate penetration this would becomes a marginal shot were I would to track and recover the deer.

Scenario 2 – Soft tissue (liver or stomach)
Here you need to maximize expansion to increase damage. In this scenario, you will have to track the deer to recover no matter what bullet chosen. What I am looking for in a bullet is one that can produce a lot of damage to soft tissue and create a big exit hole. Reducing the distance the deer travels and increase the amount of blood dropping to the ground. Let’s avoid getting into tracking techniques, that another topic for another day.

Thanks
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Old August 22, 2013, 12:50 PM   #47
Doyle
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Welcome to the form. PLEASE DON'T GRAVEDIG.
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Old August 24, 2013, 09:14 AM   #48
hooligan1
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Location: Independence Missouri
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"welcome to the forum ... please dont GRAVEDIG..."
But since you did, my advice is that you start a new thread and title it Questions: Best Bullet choice .243 winchester for deer????

It will amaze you at all the responces you'll garner.
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Old August 24, 2013, 08:19 PM   #49
dahermit
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Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near Ohio, Indiana.
Posts: 3,505
Quote:
In respect to your statement about making a bad shot and having a much better chance of retrieving the animal because it was a premium 60 cent or more bullet that was used, I have to wonder what enhanced quality was in that bullet that can't be found in a regular Core-lok or Interlock bullet and still wouldn't have the same end result. A bad shot is a bad shot no matter how you slice it or whether it's a 19 cent bullet or a 60 cent one and the only thing that might possibly make a difference is how the bullet mushroomed, what tissue or organs were damaged, where the animal was hit, and amount of penetration. I haven't seen or experienced any difference between 19 cent and 60 cent bullets in any of these instances and that is why I stick with Core-lok's or Interlocks.
Could not have said it better myself. Nothing like experiance and logic.
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