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Old March 13, 2011, 10:34 AM   #1
Cascade1911
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CAS beginer firearms suggestions?

I am thinking of trying out Cowboy Action Shooting.

For revolver I'm figuring that my Blackhawk (.357 Magnum) would be acceptable and I'd just need a second one.
For Rifle I was thinking of something chambered in the .357 as well because it would be cheaper to reload but I think 45 colt or 44 mag would be more useful for say deer hunting.
For shotgun I have no thoughts at all except I'd lean toward a 12 gauge because I currently have a Mossberg Model 500.

What I'm looking for is a decent quality at the lowest price
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Old March 13, 2011, 11:27 AM   #2
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Yeah the Blackhawk will work. Adjustable sights will limit the classes you can shoot in. For a rifle a Marlin 94, Rossi or Chiappa 92. For a shotgun there's plenty of Stevens 311's on the market. Don't buy cheap leather. Buy the very best you can possibly afford. You'll be glad you did.
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Old March 13, 2011, 12:12 PM   #3
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what would be good for fixed sight revolver?
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Old March 13, 2011, 12:33 PM   #4
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Either the Vaquero or the many Uberti SAA clones would make a good fixed sight gun. the Rugers are more durable. Not that the Ubertis are all that prone to breakage it's just that leaf springs will break on occasion and need to be replaced and Ruger's hardly ever break.

Stoeger coach guns and the Bakail's imported by Remington are pretty good shotguns too.
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Old March 13, 2011, 12:39 PM   #5
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A Ruger Old Vaquero, a Ruger New Vaquero or a Uberti 1873 Colt.
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Old March 13, 2011, 04:35 PM   #6
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If you come across an affordable Virginian Dragoon single action revolver then buy it.
The early models were made by Hammerli in Switzerland and imported by Interarms until they began manufacturing them in the U.S.. Although many but not all have an adjustable sight, they receive many favorable reviews.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368461
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Old March 13, 2011, 09:15 PM   #7
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Your Blackhawk will be fine. SASS rules were changed a while back to make adjustable sight revolvers OK for most categories ("Classic Cowboy" category is an exception). I'd recommend that your revolvers match but it's not an absolute necessity if you get the hankering for a different type of revolver.

If you want a fixed sight gun the New Vaquero is very popular and you won't have to learn a different loading-unloading system. I'm sure you know that single action revolvers OTHER THAN Ruger have to be put on half cock to free the cylinder for loading or unloading.

At our local club we typically advise new shooters NOT to buy guns and leather but to attend a couple of matches and handle examples of what is available. I showed up at my first match with a specific rifle in mind but after I tried several rifles I changed my mind. Glad I didn't buy something that didn't work out.

I'd recommend a rifle in the same chambering as your revolver(s). .38-.357 is very popular because the ammo and components are a good bit cheaper than the larger calibers. We shoot a lot of ammo in CAS and the savings (or costs) add up.

I'm sure you know that there are basically three choices in shotguns: a double, a Winchester 1897 pump (modern replicas are available) or a Winchester 1887 lever action (these are almost always replicas).

The Stoeger Coach Gun is a popular double. Remington no longer imports the Baikal but EAA has them available again. There is no rule that you have to use a short barreled coach gun. Quite a few people use field guns and they work fine.
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Old March 13, 2011, 10:39 PM   #8
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You've been given good advice. I would recommend having the rifle and pistols of the same caliber. The New Vaquero, I believe has the same grip shape as the older Blackhawks so it might be a closer match (feel) to your Blackhawk. I have both the IGA Stoeger coach gun and a cut down Stevens 311. I like the coach gun better as it opens further, is slicker, and has chokes. I also have a hammered TTN 1887 colt replica hammered gun. I believe they now come with choke tubes. For starters a double SXS 12ga, another blackhawk or New Vaquero and a Rossi 92 or Marlin would get you started without a ton of outlay. If you find you just gotta have more speed or firepower then later you could consider the '73s and '97s and all kinds of action work and replacement parts (short stroke kits). I'm too slow for all the slicking to do a helluva lot of good. I shoot Rossi 92s in .357mag.
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Old March 14, 2011, 04:29 PM   #9
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I was thinking of going with the Uberti until I started reading some problems peeps are having with them on this board. Looks like the extra $130 or so that the Vaquero costs is well worth it. What is the difference between the "Old" and "New" Vaquero?
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Old March 14, 2011, 04:41 PM   #10
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I would not consider the problems that the folks are having with the Schofields as indicative of Uberti's quality across the board. Their SAAs and rifles are right up there amongst the top performers.

Whatever it is with the top breaks seems to be something endemic to that model.

The major difference that I see between old and new Vaqueros is that the grip and frame of the New Vaquero is smaller than the old model.
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Old March 14, 2011, 04:47 PM   #11
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This this at turners.com weekly special:

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Old March 14, 2011, 05:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
I was thinking of going with the Uberti until I started reading some problems peeps are having with them on this board. Looks like the extra $130 or so that the Vaquero costs is well worth it. What is the difference between the "Old" and "New" Vaquero?
Nothing wrong with Uberti 73's. The Old Vaq has a larger frame and will handle Ruger only loads. The new Vaq is about he same size and shape of a Colt. it operates nothing like a Colt however.
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Old March 14, 2011, 05:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
The new Vaq is about he same size and shape of a Colt. it operates nothing like a Colt however.
Is that a good or bad thing? As for the smaller grips, I do not have large hands so that's probably a good thing. (I produce castings for Wildey......REALLY? )
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Old March 14, 2011, 06:02 PM   #14
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The very best advice has already been given -- go watch a local match (or just show up, they'll let you shoot their stuff) and handle and/or shoot a lot of different pistols and rifles. You can spend a mint or you can go economy....whatever you're wallet can handle, but at least you'll do so knowing what you like or don't like.

My gunsmith uses the racecar metaphor. You wanna go (really) fast? Sure, but be prepared to spend more money. For example, a fella with a Uberti '73 rifle with aluminum carrier, short-stroked, etc. can be faster than I am with my '92 Rossi. He can shoot 10 rounds and I can shoot 10 rounds and he'll be a few seconds faster than I am.....assuming he hits all of his targets. It's my job to hit all of mine. I paid $500 for my rifle used and he's probably going to have $1100+ in his. That doesn't hurt my feelings cuz I get to play.....and he might not hit all of his targets .

I was talking to my gunsmith over the weekend about my Open Top pistols. I'd heard that one of the springs has a tendency to break and voiced my concerns. He says, "Heck, if it was a perfect design, Colt wouldn't have ever made the Peacemaker." He's right, of course.

SASS is wonderful in that the folks (for the most part) will let you handle and fire their stuff, so when you do buy guns, you'll have a good informed decision and not just what everybody tells you (but you will, of course, get a lot of that too! ).

Good Luck and enjoy the game.
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Old March 14, 2011, 07:11 PM   #15
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Wait a minute, black plastic? Wheres the Walnut? Is that even legal in CAS?

But hey, Tanker6, good advice, go look and learn!
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Old March 14, 2011, 08:16 PM   #16
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Cap & Ball too

front stuffers.....CAP & BALL, are an option too!

most folks over look this category and frankly these types were represented in the wild west well into the early 1870s.

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Old March 14, 2011, 08:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Is that a good or bad thing?
The size is good, it even looks like a Colt until you get close. The operating system is sound and reliable but I won't own a Ruger SA because of it. There's no half cock notch for loading. Just open the gate and cylinder free wheels. There's no hammer clicks and it has a transfer bar. Uberti has a hammer mounted firing pin but SASS only lets you load five anyway. Uberti has four hammer clicks like a Colt. Plus Uberti looks like a real Colt.
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Old March 14, 2011, 09:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
.....CAP & BALL, are an option too!

most folks over look this category and frankly these types were represented in the wild west well into the early 1870s.
I've read accounts of C&B revolvers being used into the late 80s.
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Old March 14, 2011, 10:47 PM   #19
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Most of the 1873 Single Action Army Colt 45s went to the military until the contracts were filled. Meanwhile a huge amount of surplus C&Bs were floating around with very affordable prices and public/veteran familiarity. Many were converted to 44 rimfire but most gun owners were familiar with percussion ignition and the C&Bs were used well into the 1870s & 80s but less & less as cartridge technology and mass production made the suppository guns more affordable. The C&Bs are probably responsible for the concept of the two gun rig. Since they were slow to reload, if you wanted more firepower than 6 shots you needed a second gun. When C&Bs first came out people were thrilled to get SIX(!) shots in a row!! The guns were not designed to shoot 30 times in a row so sure, they foul up quickly. Again, if you wanted more than 6 shots then you carried additional guns. Some Confederate irregular cavalry (Missouri Bushwhackers, Cantrell, Bloody Bill Anderson's men, e.g.) carried several each.
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Old March 15, 2011, 06:47 AM   #20
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It depends on what you want. Personally I would never use a Ruger. I has one of the original Vaqueros and while it was a strong gun, it was not for my tastes. They are well made guns but only resemble a true 19th century handgun externally. I got into SAS because a love of history and the old guns an not, as a competitive sport, so I prefer guns that are or resemble the real thing. I like the sound and feel of a gun with a half cock notch. But others like the Rugers for their ease and durability.
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Old March 15, 2011, 06:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
I was thinking of going with the Uberti until I started reading some problems peeps are having with them on this board. Looks like the extra $130 or so that the Vaquero costs is well worth it. What is the difference between the "Old" and "New" Vaquero?
The Ubertis are just like the Colts etc. The springs are leaf springs and eventually wear out but I have had on for 15yrs (Cimmaron) and have not had a problem. One other broke a spring and I was able to replace it with a $5 part in under 5 minutes. The '"Old Vaquero" which I had was larger than a Colt or Clone. If I wanted to shoot bears with a pistol I would use one since it was very strong.
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Old March 15, 2011, 07:48 AM   #22
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Quote:
I was thinking of going with the Uberti until I started reading some problems peeps are having with them on this board.
I have eight Uberti revolvers and one Ruger Vaquero. The first Uberti I bought was 17 years ago. I have had no problems with that gun or any of the other seven. I don't just use them for target shooting either. I spend a lot of time outdoors. My guns have seen every type of bad weather there is. They have been exposed to rain, mud, dust, you name it. I carry them hunting, woods walking, horseback riding, while doing farmwork, pretty much everything. I have had to replace exactly two (2) springs in two different guns in 17 years. Uberti's might not be as strong as a Ruger, but neither is a real Colt. They don't need to be, unless you want to shoot wrist-breaking handloads. Rugers aren't immune to problems either. I bought my first Ruger last year. I like it, it's a tough revolver. Although it is heavier, and not as well balanced as a Uberti/Colt. As has already been said, don't overlook C&B revolvers either. Good luck with your choice.

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Old March 17, 2011, 09:54 AM   #23
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One question not answered.

The 357 out of a 92 or a Marlin 94 is an acceptable (under 100 yard) hunting rifle for deer sized animals.
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Old March 19, 2011, 05:37 AM   #24
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Cap & Ball

Ok, which cap & ball revolvers then?
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Old March 19, 2011, 07:15 AM   #25
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Pietta steel frame Remington 58's from Cabela's are the best bang for the buck.
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