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Old March 1, 2011, 11:34 AM   #51
Incognito
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So the majority of the thread has turned into a discussion on social profiling :barf:

My last three visits to a public range (about three years ago) made me realize that just like a driver's license, anybody can get one, whether they're proficient at it or completely incompetent, and allowed to operate a pontentially deadly weapon regardless. Unfortunately at a shooting range one does not have the option to switch lanes, speed up or slow down and get away from the deficient operator.

My advice is join a private club. The caliber of people one encounters there are more refined in what we do and have a greater appreciation, respect, and understanding of our sport

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Old March 1, 2011, 12:09 PM   #52
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All of the above is why I shoot at a private range. I don't care what the guy shooting next to me looks like, but I do care about how he behaves, particularly when it comes to shooting responsibly.

I shoot at the private range because I've shot at plenty of unsupervised public ranges. I don't want to have to leave the range because I feel that my safety is about to be compromised. It doesn't matter if the unsafe shooter is wearing a suit or has his pants below his butt. I'm not the range officer, I'm not the safety officer and I'm not an instructor. So, I shoot at the private range. And if somebody behaves in an unsafe manner, I can talk to one of the club officers and the problem will be fixed...or go away.

It sounds heartless and maybe even snobby, but there are certain situations where the risk/reward calculation just doesn't compute.

Oh, and we do a pretty good job of cleaning and maintaining the private range...that's a big plus in my book!
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Old March 1, 2011, 08:19 PM   #53
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Quote:
The person who was there stated that he did nothing unsafe. How can you argue with that?
The OP never said the subject in question was "unsafe" but he also never said he was being "safe". He described a precarious situation and implied that the shooter was being foolish/unsafe/flat-out-stupid. If, while you are firing a gun, your spine is bent so far back as to cause you to nearly fall over, you are being unsafe/foolish/idiotic, in my humble opinion. Please, pretty please, tell me how this is a "safe" shooting stance? Nevermind the fact that he can't hit a target at 10'. At 10' anyone should be able to at least hit a 8x11 piece of paper. I'm no crack shot but at 10' I can put each round in a 3" circle without trying, and I could do that when I was 9 years old with my Beretta Model 70.

Despite what was "said", the condition is unsafe as described: thus foolish and with a gun in hand, dangerous.

I am the King of England. I explicitly said it. Do you believe it?
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Old March 2, 2011, 08:01 PM   #54
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HK-Lance wrote:
Quote:
Skadoosh wrote:
Quote:
Gang banger or not, unless he is an escaped fugitive or has a warrant out for his arrest and if the proprietor has no problem with him being there, he still has as much a right to be there as you. And you still have the right to stay or leave. It is why this country remains great.
I have no idea why you're constantly referring to his "right" to be there. I never mentioned anything about rights, or who has more right to be there, or any such thing. My original post has nothing to do with whether he has a "right" to be at the range. I simply asked for others' insight on how they might handle such a situation, since it fell into a gray area, ie someone not necessarily doing something outright dangerous, but acting in a manner that puts him on the borderline of doing so.
Well then it seems to me that if you felt he was borderline unsafe and didn't have the intestinal fortitude to say anything to him about it, then coming here to ask what we think about it is beside the point.
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Old March 4, 2011, 03:48 AM   #55
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Has nothing to do with intestinal fortitude, it has to do with what's the best way to approach a situation in a gray area.
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Old March 5, 2011, 03:55 PM   #56
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most clubs have rules about rounds on target--if most are not than you are out. not cut and dried but the tone is convayed by the RO thusly. besides, rounds off target are potential rick-o-shays. bad juju.

worked for me a couple of times in the past is--when he takes time to reload i say to hime like--"i've been looking for a gun like that, may i try a couple of rounds?" sure says he and i place 3 in the black fast and thank him. you cant count to 3 before he's all over me asking how i did that.

you can make friends in the oddest of places under the strangest of conditions. though if either had been wearing colors, ida been packed & gone home. remember that rule about avoiding trouble often gets harder the longer you avoid doing it.
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Old March 5, 2011, 04:06 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK-Lance
A short while later, in walks this degenerate who was clearly a gang-banger,
Wow. You don't know the guy and you label him a degenerate gang-banger?

Maybe you're the one people should be eyeing suspiciously.
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Old March 7, 2011, 08:27 PM   #58
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Labels are assigned to things based on their properties. Like bullets being labeled ammunition and apples being labeled fruit. People label themselves and the whole label thing is old and tired. Let's assume the t*rd was a fine young gentileman from a good family destine for collage. That means everything he said and did and how he dressed was contrived to make you think he was a pimp mac daddy gang banger. Your labeling was all he ever wanted, mission accomplished. I prefer to label myself as a good man who would help anyone who needed and deserved it and who buys clothes that fit me. That's the label I'm looking for. The bottom line is IF YOU ACT LIKE A (blank), PEOPLE WILL TREAT YOU LIKE A (blank), you fill in the blank, not me.
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Old March 7, 2011, 08:33 PM   #59
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By the way, you can try this. Just say "Dude, everybody looks funny at you when you shoot like that, I don't think they like it "
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Old March 8, 2011, 12:23 AM   #60
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Quote:
The OP never said the subject in question was "unsafe" but he also never said he was being "safe". He described a precarious situation and implied that the shooter was being foolish/unsafe/flat-out-stupid.
He didn't imply unsafe and stated nothing unsafe happened.

What he stated was that he thought the guy was a degenerate gang-banger who didn't shoot well and didn't like the stance and suggested he didn't have common sense, though never stated anything to support a lack of common sense. He didn't like the way the guy was shooting, plain and simple.

I really liked this comment...
Quote:
Second, he was close to falling over backwards, and had he done so, I highly doubt he would have had either the presence of mind or even the common sense knowledge to take his finger outside of the trigger guard to avoid accidental discharge as he fell.
I cannot begin to tell you have many people I have seen in this shooting position, often females, often older people, people who can't see up close, usually new to shooting. Being new to shooting, then they probably didn't "have the presence of mind or even the common sense knowledge to take their finger outisde the trigger guard to avoid accidental discharge as they fell." They seem to try to get their head as far back from the gun as possible to shoot. It looks precarious. I haven't seen any fall over backwards.

New shooter discussions pertaining to leaning back, sometimes WAY back...
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.p...24215&start=15
http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=33723
http://www.coronadotraining.com/free/lepub2.html
http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/932910.html
http://www.uscops.com/videos-my-girl...vsOCySI%5D.cfm

Contrary to the obviously biased comment, taking your finger out of the trigger guard isn't common sense and would not be of presense of mind for a person who fell if they had not had proper training. Actually, the opposite is more true. People tend to grip what they are holding in an attempt to control it as they fall and that grip reflex including squeezing the trigger, unfortunately.
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Old March 8, 2011, 01:30 AM   #61
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So a middle aged white man who admits that all he worries about is the "ghetto" encroaching on his white gated community goes to the range and freaks out when he sees a "gang banger" shooting a pistol. Man, you can't make this stuff up. This thread is just full of ignorance.

Whether you like it or not, many non-whites own guns, and most of them are not criminal thugs. But hey, what do I know? Am just a Cuban-American. I guess if you saw me at the range with my SKS or my Mosin Nagant and an unlit cigar in my mouth, you'd probably come in here and complain about the communist revolutionaries taking over your range. Never mind getting to know me, which if you did, you'd find out that I am conservative, pro-NRA, clean cut, and well educated.

This thread is just full of uncomfortable and creepy racial/cultural profiling undertones. If you don't like to see non-anglo Americans (or poorly dressed white youngsters) shooting guns at your range because it makes you uncomfortable, then go join a plush private-owned range that screens members for the size of their bank account and racial/cultural makeup.

Last edited by osallent; March 8, 2011 at 01:41 AM.
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Old March 8, 2011, 01:46 AM   #62
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This thread is missing productive content ... :barf: People are people. Sorry HK, but you're spending a lot of time defending your original post.
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Old March 9, 2011, 12:12 AM   #63
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According to the FBI uniform crime reports certain demographic blocks are more prone to criminal activity, ossalent. What you decry as profiling is merely observing common sense.
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Old March 9, 2011, 08:08 AM   #64
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ok, fine. If a non-anglo American with a gun at the range makes you that uncomfortable because of the FBI statistics, then go open your own white people only range, or buy a private piece of land of your own to shoot.

However, when you use a regular range that operates as a for-profit business, expect to come into contact with a diverse racial and socioeconomic crowds. There will be people there different than you (economically/culturally/racially), and under the 2nd Amendment, if they are not criminals, they have a right to own guns and be patrons at the range.
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Old March 9, 2011, 08:40 AM   #65
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Quote:
I haven't seen any fall over backwards.
And I have never seen a ship sink from a captains neglect, but I know it happens and is certainly possible. Even if the shooter does not fall over, does this give them more or less control of the firearm? Less. Is this a good thing? No.

Quote:
I cannot begin to tell you have many people I have seen in this shooting position, often females, often older people, people who can't see up close, usually new to shooting.
So how does this make the point that this is a safe and functional shooting stance? Because new shooters all do it, it is OK to do? Huh?

Quote:
I really liked this comment...
Somehow I get the distinct impression you're being sarcastic. But thanks anyways, you're welcome.
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Old March 9, 2011, 02:44 PM   #66
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It seems the tightie-whities are getting all bunched up and uncomfy to some
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Old March 9, 2011, 06:28 PM   #67
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I read the post a few times and other than the young man not knowing much about a handgun I can't figure out what he did wrong. I'm also curious as to how you knew he was a gang banger. Did you ask him? Did he volunteer this information to you? Are you a expert in this field and automatically recognized obvious signs such as tattoos, etc.? As far as the range itself is concerned was it against the rules to shoot rapid fire? I know thats the case in the range that I shoot. Verses complaining to us why didn't you show him how to do it the right way?
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Old March 9, 2011, 09:31 PM   #68
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The part that gets me most about this thread is where the OP actually wonders how he would be able to kill this dangerous gangbanger if needs be. Kind of shocking really.

Macall is right, it's not profiling when you have statistical evidence to back up your bigotry! Statistically white males from 21-34 are the most likely to drink and drive so let's keep extra close tabs on them and have cops detain them on the way home from work every night.

/White male, 27
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Old March 10, 2011, 12:45 AM   #69
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Pretty disturbing thread experience.

Now ended.
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