The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 8, 2011, 01:16 PM   #1
alan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,745
NRA Alert and BATFE's proposal for "temporary emergency powers"

Rec'd. the following from the NRA today, part of an email. If this matter has already been discussed here, excuse the repeat.

BATFE Request To Track
Semi-Automatic Rifle Sales Delayed


As we reported on December 17, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has proposed that it be given emergency authority for six months to require about 8,500 firearm dealers along the border with Mexico "to alert authorities when they sell within five consecutive business days two or more semiautomatic rifles greater than .22 caliber with detachable magazines." A Washington Post story reporting on the BATFE proposal described that definition as being applicable to "so-called assault weapons," but it would also apply to many rifles that have never been labeled with that term. The rule change was to have started this week, but has been delayed by the White House.

According to an article on TheUSDaily.com, the White House Office of Management and Budget was expected to approve the rule change on Wednesday, but an official told Reuters that "ATF's information collection request is still under review," and declined further comment until the "deliberative phase is concluded."
--------------------------------------------------

It appears that OMB, which has something to say to BATFE about such proposals looks like they could kill the entire matter, is still considering the question, which might translate trying to sense which way the winds blow.

Re this, how many here have taken the small trouble to contact OMB, expressing what one would hope were their objections to this latest BATFE scam? How many here have contacted their elected things, some of whom are newly elected?

The choice is yours, however if this opportunity to object is lost via not being used, and BATFE gets away with this latest power grab, think on this. Where will it stop?
alan is offline  
Old January 8, 2011, 07:03 PM   #2
Bud Helms
Staff
 
Join Date: December 31, 1999
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 13,003
This strikes me as an L&CR topic.

Moving.
__________________
"The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinion." - John Lawton, speaking to the American Association of Broadcast Journalists in 1995
Bud Helms is offline  
Old January 8, 2011, 09:27 PM   #3
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 26, 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,649
[sincerity] The BATFE wants more power? Wow! That's amazing! [/sincerity]
__________________
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.
Standing Wolf is offline  
Old January 9, 2011, 10:58 PM   #4
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 11,316
Quote:
semiautomatic rifles greater than .22 caliber with detachable magazines."
Does this mean that they want to track AKs but not ARs? (.223?)?

Consider it a trial balloon, or the camel's nose under the tent flap. If they can get this, using the Mexican "crisis" as an excuse, they will certainly ask for more later.

The whole "mexican drug war violence fueled by US guns" is a red herring. Yes, the majority of the guns they recover will have been made in the US. We make, and sell a lot of guns, and have been doing so for a couple hundred years. Mexico has virtually no domestic firearms industry. Nearly ALL the guns in that country came from somewhere else. Including large numbers of actual assault rifles (M16s) supplied to Mexico by the US Government! The Mexican military has had thousands of desertions in the past decade (apparently the drug cartels pay better than the Mexican Army), and more than a few deserters took their army supplied guns with them.

Belt fed machineguns and M16s with M203 40mm grenade launchers (recovered from drug gangs) are NOT being sold in border gun shops and smuggled to Mexico!

The Mexican govt's excuse for not cleaning their own house is "we can't, because of all the guns coming from the US". And its total BS. They also claim the violence on the border is a result of the US demand for drugs (also BS), conveniently ignoring the fact that there is no such violence on the other US border, despite the same US "demand for drugs". If the Canadians are experiencing a huge murder rate and gang wars over drugs, we certainly are not hearing about it.

When this is pointed out, (in public) there is usually an almost instantaneous accusation of racism against anyone so bold as to point out the difference between the northern and southern US borders. Again, BS. Its not racial, its cultural.

BATFE is fishing. IF they can get the authority to track rifle sales the way they want, they will be able to come up with statistics to support a further increase in their power and mission.

One statistic that has already been in the press several times in the past year shows the huge majority of guns siezed from the drug cartels as coming from the US. But look closely at the wording. When it is accurately reported (and that isn't always done) the quoted statistic begins with the phrase "of those guns traced..."

Its a small matter, really, to round up a bunch of guns, saying Made in USA on them, add in a few others, and ask the BATFE to trace them. Instant (and misleading) statistic. Tracking rifles sold by border area FFL dealers will result in the same kind of statistic. While any number reported will, naturally be as accurate as possible (because that can be checked) , the implication will be touted as fact, without any of the vital qualifiers needed to assess the real world applicability of the statistic. And once the media (and politicians) get their hands on a statistic, it never seems to go away, even when clearly and factually discredited. "43 times more likely to be killed because you have a gun in your home..." anyone?
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 04:22 AM   #5
WeedWacker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2006
Location: Body: Clarkston, Washington. Soul: LaCrosse, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,530
Quote:
. Yes, the majority of the guns they recover will have been made in the US.
The majority of traceable guns they recover come from the US. There are some underground factories and black market military rifles that show up, but the only ones that are really traceable are
  • the ones pilfered from the Mexican military
  • weapons from the US market thanks to the NICS and regulations on the firearms industries.

All others have no serial numbers or have been sanitized for whatever reason.
__________________
- Weed
Disequilibrium facilitates accommodation.
9mm vs 45 ACP? The answer is 42.
WeedWacker is offline  
Old January 10, 2011, 07:42 PM   #6
alan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,745
From AMP, who said in part:
Quote:
semiautomatic rifles greater than .22 caliber with detachable magazines."

Does this mean that they want to track AKs but not ARs? (.223?)?
-------------------------

I wouldn't think so, for isn't the AR-15 an "assault rifle", as media talking heads frequently describe it?

Consider it a trial balloon, or the camel's nose under the tent flap. If they can get this, using the Mexican "crisis" as an excuse, they will certainly ask for more later.
--------------------------

Oh it absolutely is a "trial balloon, and re the deflating of balloons, trial or otherwise, which should be done RDN (Right Damned Now) has anyone got a pin, or lit cigarette, perhaps a lit cigar handy?

Belt fed machineguns and M16s with M203 40mm grenade launchers (recovered from drug gangs) are NOT being sold in border gun shops and smuggled to Mexico!
----------------------------

Yes, in the U.S., there is that little matter of law, in this case, The National Firearms Act of 1934, notwithstanding state laws on the matter. That aside, the world is awash in AK-47's, real AK-47's, the ones that have SELECTIVE FIRE CAPABILITY, not the pale imitations thereof that one can purchase, at ridiculous prices, in the U.S.

The Mexican govt's excuse for not cleaning their own house is "we can't, because of all the guns coming from the US". And its total BS. They also claim the violence on the border is a result of the US demand for drugs (also BS), conveniently ignoring the fact that there is no such violence on the other US border, despite the same US "demand for drugs". If the Canadians are experiencing a huge murder rate and gang wars over drugs, we certainly are not hearing about it.
----------------------

The Mexican governments essential problem is CORRUPTION within Mexico. Drug demand in the U.S., might be an aggravating factor, but it's not the cause of problems experienced by the government of Mexico, and by the way, respecting the quite that exists along the U.S. Canadian border, notwithstanding the same demand for drugs, there isn't much shooting along or near this border, and believe it or not, there are criminals in Canada too.

BATFE is fishing. IF they can get the authority to track rifle sales the way they want, they will be able to come up with statistics to support a further increase in their power and mission.
------------------------------

When if ever did they put the fish polls away? Self-aggrandizement is their middle name,

I could have commented at greater length but enough said is I think appropriate at this point.

Last edited by alan; January 10, 2011 at 07:45 PM. Reason: correction of spelling, actually rotten typing
alan is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08521 seconds with 9 queries