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Old July 9, 2010, 02:58 PM   #1
riverwalker76
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ANyone Know About Bullplate Sprue Lube Ingredients?

A buddy and I were sitting around the shop last night, and tried to figure out a good lube for our lead bullets. He suggested using Beeswax and Bullplate Sprue lube.

What makes up Bullplate Sprue Lube? Is it a silicone, mineral oil, or other type of oil based lube? I've looked on the net and can't find an MSDS on it.
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Old July 9, 2010, 03:27 PM   #2
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a simple and effective bullet lube is speed green...which is bullplate and beeswax. Bullplate is an excellent sprue lube, and I use it just for that. Makes casting a dream and helps keep the bottom of the sprue plate from becoming galled with lead. Order some...trust me! (can get it over on castboolits website) If you are looking for a really good bullet lube, check out White label lubes...they are very cheap and they have several different formulas (also on castboolits website on the bottom of the page "Lar 45s stuff). I personally used BAC for a long time but recently started mixing 1/2 a stick of carnauba red with 1/2 stick of BAC.

I went down the road of making my own lubes for a while, and found the mess and aggravation wasn't worth it....and now I just buy it. It is hard to beat for the price you pay.

I am using this current blend in everything from low velocity 45 acp to 2100+ fps 454 casull loads with zero leading. I think I have found the "one lube fits all"...at least for me... Good luck!

To answer your question, bullplate seems to be along the same lines as STP oil treatment. I have also used STP and beeswax as a lube and it performs well. More beeswax will give you a stiffer lube, more STP will soften it. Trial and error.
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Old July 10, 2010, 11:24 AM   #3
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My guess is it's a silicone based lubricant. I DO know it's a high temp lube, that's what makes it ideal for a sprue plate lube. It doesn't burn, it stays on the plate and doesn't migrate into the cavities,,,---IF you don't use too much! A "Q" tip dipped in it and then nearly squeezed dry, is ALL you need.

Dan at bullshop says you can add it to bullet lube to increase the lubes effectiveness. The little bottles won't make much lube, so I stick with my 50-50% alox.
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Old July 14, 2010, 04:52 PM   #4
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My problem is that I only need an MSDS on it, but can't seem to get one. I asked for an MSDS on it over at Cast Boolits.com and was attacked without discretion, so I'll have to look elsewhere. I don't need to know the exact recipe for the "Witches Brew", but instead an MSDS. I don't want to replicate it for my own purposes. What would be the point? For $4 a bottle I can afford to buy it from Bullshop all day long. It's the secrecy in hiding the true chemical composition that has left me wondering.

Kind of like how DDT was the best bug killer for years until they banned it. Agent Orange was a heck of a foliage reducer as well. Know what I mean?

Thanks
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Old July 14, 2010, 08:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riverwalker76
My problem is that I only need an MSDS on it, but can't seem to get one. I asked for an MSDS on it over at Cast Boolits.com and was attacked without discretion, so I'll have to look elsewhere. I don't need to know the exact recipe for the "Witches Brew", but instead an MSDS. I don't want to replicate it for my own purposes. What would be the point? For $4 a bottle I can afford to buy it from Bullshop all day long. It's the secrecy in hiding the true chemical composition that has left me wondering.

Kind of like how DDT was the best bug killer for years until they banned it. Agent Orange was a heck of a foliage reducer as well. Know what I mean?
Because the manufacturer doesn't want to divulge the formula, you compare it to DDT and Agent Orange?
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Old July 14, 2010, 08:57 PM   #6
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It smells like 90W gear lube. Alot thinner tho.
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Old July 14, 2010, 09:01 PM   #7
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don H
Because the manufacturer doesn't want to divulge the formula, you compare it to DDT and Agent Orange?

That's not what he did, and he's not asking for the manufacturer to "divulge the formula". The MSDS should be public information.
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Old July 14, 2010, 11:56 PM   #8
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Does anyone know a nurse that works in a hospital. I know it sounds a little odd but acute care hospital always have a subscription to a MSDS service that keeps all of this information on file.
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Old July 15, 2010, 10:06 AM   #9
Don H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peetzakilla
The MSDS should be public information.
Quote:
What are my rights to an MSDS?

Consumers. As stated previously, many manufacturers or distributors are happy to give an MSDS to anyone who asks but they are under no OSHA obligation to distribute these to consumers. See this OSHA interpretation letter and the downstream flow entry above for more information about how MSDS's are supposed to be distributed.
http://www.ilpi.com/msds/faq/partb.html#myrights

Is there an agency/law/rule/regulation that requires a MSDS be available to consumers?
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Old July 15, 2010, 06:38 PM   #10
riverwalker76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don H
Is there an agency/law/rule/regulation that requires a MSDS be available to consumers?
There are US Trade Laws that require a chemical that is to be sold to the public to be classified. In other words ... if I mix up a 'brew' of a special lube and want to distribute it through my business to the public ... US Trade Law requires that I have documentation of the base chemicals in the mix. Granted ... I don't have to divulge the recipe or named ingredients, but I do have to have a list of the base ingredients for EPA verification. Especially where an oil is concerned. This is for poison control and EPA reasons.

Also, there is a 'Right To Know' law that was taken into effect back in the late 80's to early 90's. It requires any person who transports, distributes, manufactures, or sells chemicals to have an MSDS on hand of the chemicals they transport or sell. Today a lot of trucking companies get around this by having their shipping manifest on hand with the driver.
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Old July 15, 2010, 09:43 PM   #11
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I think it would be rude and going too far to force the man to up with a MSDS sheet. He makes his living off this stuff! Have enough class to at least offer him some bucks for the recipe, let the man feed his family, geesh.

Felix lube is good lube and it's easily tweaked so you can call it your own. You don't want to do your own homework so let file a motion to compell an MSDS sheet from the man who did do his homework, Classic.
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Old July 15, 2010, 09:49 PM   #12
riverwalker76
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Quote:
I think it would be rude and going too far to force the man to up with a MSDS sheet. He makes his living off this stuff! Have enough class to at least offer him some bucks for the recipe, let the man feed his family, geesh.

Felix lube is good lube and it's easily tweaked so you can call it your own. You don't want to do your own homework so let file a motion to compell an MSDS sheet from the man who did do his homework, Classic.
Again ... I'm not asking for his recipe, and the MSDS will not show that anyway!

I will not put me or my family's health at risk just because someone doesn't want to tell me what his chemical compound consists of. All the guy has to say is "It's a petroleum distillate with trace minerals of xx, xx, and xx." That's all I want to know.

I find it interesting how many people think that the MSDS is an 'ingredient list'.

It's not ... it just shows the chemicals that are 'in play' in the formula so you know if you are dealing with a petroleum distillate, a natural compound, or what have you.

This is seriously amusing to see how many people argue that 'since I want an MSDS ... I want his recipe'! It's not like that at all. I just want to know what chemicals the solution contains and what I'm dealing with.

For instance ... I know when I'm dealing with Lead that it's Lead. I know what precautions to take and so on. With this chemical lubricant ... I have no idea what it is. SHould I treat it like baby oil, or should I treat it like gasoline? Will the vapors coming off of the hot sprue cause me health problems? I have absolutely no idea at this point in time.

I think this is a fair and honest question, and I'm not going to stop looking for answers until I have them.
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Last edited by riverwalker76; July 15, 2010 at 09:56 PM.
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Old July 15, 2010, 09:58 PM   #13
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I could have swore you wrote you want to replicate it, my bad. You're still over reacting I think. Have you tried asking him? He's a nice guy.

Last edited by Edward429451; July 16, 2010 at 10:12 AM.
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Old July 16, 2010, 09:37 AM   #14
riverwalker76
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Show me in my posts where I said I wanted to replicate it!

Reading Comprehension seems to be in short supply these days. Assumption overrides the optic nerve for some reason.
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Old July 16, 2010, 08:31 PM   #15
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If you can't find/know a nurse you can subscribe to an MSDS service and simply get it through the service. It is possible that your company has use of a service as well and the engineering plant or EVS would have access to this system.

Quote:
Reading Comprehension seems to be in short supply these days. Assumption overrides the optic nerve for some reason.
Amen
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Old July 16, 2010, 08:49 PM   #16
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The problem is .... there is no identifying marks on the bottle. It's a white bottle with a label on it that says "Bullplate Sprue Lube". That's it.

I'm in the process of having it analyzed, so I'll know soon enough what it's made of. I'm tired of waiting on the tight lipped seller to respond to my multiple requests.
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Old July 17, 2010, 12:55 AM   #17
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You got a label on yours?!
I didn't
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Old July 17, 2010, 01:08 AM   #18
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I will not put me or my family's health at risk just because someone doesn't want to tell me what his chemical compound consists of. All the guy has to say is "It's a petroleum distillate with trace minerals of xx, xx, and xx." That's all I want to know.
Then don't buy it. Simple.

Quote:
Reading Comprehension seems to be in short supply these days.
Common sense seems to be in short supply these days.
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Old July 17, 2010, 05:19 PM   #19
rtpzwms
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with that label you might want to read this:
What agencies or regulations require us to keep MSDS's?
OSHA
The U.S. Government's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is responsible for the Hazard Communication Standard 29 CFR 1910.1200. The purpose of this standard is "to ensure that the hazards of all chemicals produced or imported are evaluated, and that information concerning their hazards is transmitted to employers and employees. This transmittal of information is to be accomplished by means of comprehensive hazard communication programs, which are to include container labeling and other forms of warning, material safety data sheets and employee training."

The Hazard Communication Standard (HCS) specifies the required elements that must be on an MSDS among other important data. It is a very readable document, and we suggest that anyone involved with MSDS management print out a hard copy for future reference.

OSHA has a suggested format for MSDS's, Form 174 (OMB #1218-0072). You can download this form in HTML format from the U.S. Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration world wide web site if you wish. Form 174 format is not mandatory; in fact, OSHA now recommends that the ANSI format be used. An MSDS can contain more information than that required by OSHA, but not less.

EPA

Other regulations address MSDS's as well. For example, the U. S. Government's Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) Community Right to Know Law (SARA Title III) is another set of regulations you'll want to consult.

State and Local Agencies

Many state laws may require or govern the content of MSDS's. Some of these are state Right to Know Laws. There are so many of these that we can not even begin to list them here!

If you are uncertain as to which laws apply to you, contact both your state and federal EPA and OSHA compliance (not enforcement!) offices.

Other Countries

Regulations similar to OSHA's are found in virtually every country, but these tend to vary slightly. Consult the International section of this FAQ for more information.

What is the minimum amount of material that requires an MSDS?
The HazCom standard does not specify a minimum amount, for good reason. Some chemicals are exceedingly dangerous in even milligram quantities while others are not. There is no way that the Standard could anticipate and determine the potentially toxic effects of over 50,000,000 known chemical compounds and their mixtures.
The only exception for this is when the material can release only a "very small quantities", i.e. a trace amount of hazardous chemical under normal conditions of use or a forseeable emergency. That does not mean a small amount. For example, in an OSHA Interpretation titled "Release of hazardous chemicals from gas calibration bottles", OSHA says that 2 ounces of ammonia requires an MSDS.

When trying to make a case for "trace amount", one has to consider if it is possible for an individual to be exposed to an amount of material that could cause harm. In the case above, an individual could conceivably release the contents of the cylinder into his/her face, causing harm. Likewise, the continuous release of just 25 ppm of hydrogen sulfide could cause serious harm!

Remember, OSHA does does not define something as hazardous in a particular amount.

The HCS addresses chemical hazards which are inherent properties of the hazardous chemical and would exist no matter what quantity was present in the workplace. Risk is a function of the inherent hazard and level of exposure. A substance either is or is not a hazardous chemical; the HCS definition cannot be read to indicate that a substance could be a hazardous chemical in some concentrations but not in others.

To summarize, an MSDS is required in almost every case unless there is essentially no way that the amount of material could cause harm. For additional information see this 1993 OSHA interpretation as well as this 2005 interpretation titled "Requirement to disclose all chemicals having scientific evidence that they pose a health risk regardless of concentrations present in the product on the MSDS."

Long and short of this call OSHA give them the name of the manufacturer location of manufacture and product name see what they give you.
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Old July 17, 2010, 05:25 PM   #20
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I've seen quite a few controversial topics here on TFL. I would have never guessed that a request for an MSDS would be one.

People really can find a way to fight about anything. Even when they apparently don't even know what it is that they're arguing about.

"MSDS" does not equal "recipe".

Unreal.
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Old August 28, 2010, 09:12 PM   #21
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It's 2 cycle oil and STP mixed.
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Old September 18, 2010, 03:26 PM   #22
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I am not sure what is in it. All I do know for sure is it works GREAT. I use it for my molds. It only taks a little bit. The little cap that comes on the bottle I put one or two drops in the cap. Then put a Q tip in it to soak it up. I do this with the mold at least warm to hot. And spread it on the bottom of the sprue plate and the top of the mold. Then take the other dry end of the Q Tip and swab it off some. I also use it on the retaining pins and a touch on the alignment pins.

I have yet to use the speed green though as right now I have a bunch of Felix lube which works great. I can also say that White Label lube has some fine products that are not that expensive. I have been using BAC with good results.


Bullshop is a great guy to deal with.
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Old September 18, 2010, 03:36 PM   #23
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Just ask for the MSDS #. Every one of them has a product ID # or something similar to that. I work in a ware house. We have to have access to MSDS for everything in the place. Instead of a book we have computers that the number is typed itno the info is then displayed.
When I say we have to have one for everything I mean everthing. Even the hand soap in the restrooms has an MSDS that we have to have on file.
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Old September 18, 2010, 03:44 PM   #24
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Bullshop is a one man band. He does not make much of this stuff. It is not a huge company or even a small one lol. He makes this stuff to benifit the few from his humble home up in Alaska.
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Old December 30, 2010, 07:36 AM   #25
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That's right,He sells it so cheap and works so good that I don't care if he makes it with kodiak bear fat or Artic hump whale oil, Be safe.

Last edited by ohcnap; December 30, 2010 at 07:46 AM.
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