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Old December 7, 2010, 08:50 PM   #1
cptmclark
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10/22 trigger woes

Howdy,
I've just completed a "drop in" trigger and hammer replacement on a 10/22. The hammer and trigger are Clark products. I'm no gunsmith, but enjoy learning this stuff. After taking the time (a lot) to figure out how it works and get it back together (finding springs and such several times) I wasn't happy with the result. Pull came down from 6 1/2 to 3.7 pounds, and the break is fairly clean. However, before the hammer falls there are two other "breaks", as if it were a two (at least) stage trigger. Problem is, the major "pre-break" happens at about 3 pounds. Dissassembling again it appears to me that this is inherent in this two lever trigger. One minor "pop" is when a little spring goes in it's hole in one of the trigger pieces. I chamfered the detent hole for the spring but it still buckles and catches. This is minor. However I also see that there is what looks like a sear contact between two of the trigger pieces (seperate from the trigger/hammer notch) , and when I work the dissassembled trigger pieces I feel it pop as it releases. Greasing the contacts and springs helped slightly. I'm telling this as if I know what I'm talking about, but this is really a question. Is this just the way it is with this trigger, or do I just need to learn how to get it right. All help and education will be greatly appreciated. Mike
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Old December 8, 2010, 01:15 AM   #2
Scorch
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I installed a Clark Custom trigger in a 10/22 several years ago, and it was beautiful after installation. If you have any pops or catches as the trigger is tripped, your trigger is not right. I remember there were several psrts that could be installed incorrectly, but I didn't, so it worked.
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Old December 8, 2010, 12:31 PM   #3
Pahoo
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I routinely perform trigger work on these and have to admit that I have never used Clark material. I mostly use Voltquortsen (spelling) or Power Custom. Basically you have the following parts; Trigger, Sear/Disconnector sub assembly and hammer. I'm not sure where the pop is coming from, but when you hand operate the Sear/Disconnector Sub assembly, there will be a little "click" and that's normal. There is a designated spring in this sub-assembly and can hardly be confused with any other small spring in there.
Quote:
I remember there were several psrts that could be installed incorrectly, but I didn't, so it worked.
I really don't see how as you really don't have any options. It's really hard to get it wrong. ....
The biggest confusion that I have seen, is positioning the "Toe" of the sear boot, into the safety.
Quote:
Pull came down from 6 1/2 to 3.7
Wow !! That's not saying much for Clark as you should be somewhere in the 2.5 range. Granted, you can't always predict exactly where it's going to go but never exceed 2.5. I've had one go as low as 1.8 and my buddy loves it.
Quote:
One minor "pop" is when a little spring goes in it's hole in one of the trigger pieces.
That's not right, as the spring ends are always in their designated hole. You may have the wrong spring there. The primary kits that I use, come with a trigger return spring as well as the hammer spring. The trigger return spring sits between the trigger housing and trigger and not between the sear and disconnector. Stay with it and please lets us know how you make out. ...

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 8, 2010, 12:48 PM   #4
cptmclark
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Quote:
I routinely perform trigger work on these and have to admit that I have never used Clark material. I mostly use Voltquortsen (spelling) or Power Custom. Basically you have the following parts; Trigger, Sear/Disconnector sub assembly and hammer. I'm not sure where the pop is coming from, but when you hand operate the Sear/Disconnector Sub assembly, there will be a little "click" and that's normal. There is a designated spring in this sub-assembly and can hardly be confused with any other small spring in there.
Thanks for the ideas. The little "click" you mention is what I assumed to be the "creep". Checking it again just now, I note that I can gently pull the trigger enough to get the click, without dropping the hammer. The pull to get the click is about 3 pounds, and the hammer falls at about 3.7. The result is creep. Also, I noted that the return spring force is about two pounds, but I can't see that it's binding. When it's all assembled, as when I just hand work the trigger parts alone, I hear the spring coils going into the hole in the subassemly, and the click you mentioned.
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Old December 8, 2010, 02:08 PM   #5
Pahoo
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Quote:
I hear the spring coils going into the hole in the subassemly
You should not hear any springs, going into a hole. One end of the Sear Spring rests permanently in a pocket on the Sear and the other end, in a pocket on the Disconnector. The only thing you should hear on this subassembly, is a click, when the sear and disconnector disengage.

Take a look at this schematic of the 10/22 and note, parts 36, 9 and 37.

http://www.midwayusa.com/General.mvc...cs~ruger_10_22

As posted before, I have never worked with a clark parts kit so take a look at the instructions and see if they give you a listing of the parts. If it does not list a Sear Spring and and insted a Trigger return spring, then this spring shoud not go in this location. That's easy for me to say !! ..

Might also add that U-tube has or had a bunch of videos on doing 10/22 work.

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 8, 2010, 02:44 PM   #6
cptmclark
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Quote:
You should not hear any springs, going into a hole. One end of the Sear Spring rests permanently in a pocket on the Sear and the other end, in a pocket on the Disconnector. The only thing you should hear on this subassembly, is a click, when the sear and disconnector disengage.

Take a look at this schematic of the 10/22 and note, parts 36, 9 and 37.

http://www.midwayusa.com/General.mvc...cs~ruger_10_22

As posted before, I have never worked with a clark parts kit so take a look at the instructions and see if they give you a listing of the parts. If it does not list a Sear Spring and and insted a Trigger return spring, then this spring shoud not go in this location. That's easy for me to say !! ..

The kit contains only the trigger piece itself, no sear or disconnector, nor spring. The instructions say ""Replace factory parts with Clark parts and reassemble." So, I'm using the original disconnector, sear, and sear spring. Someone mentioned that the sear spring needs to go in only one way (big end and little end). The disconnector has only a dimple, or detent for its end of the spring, while the sear has a cylindrical hole, and the spring has to compress into that hole. The coils bump the edges of the hole, making the slight sound. Also, I just tried it with the safety engaged, and there is considedrable (maybe 20/000 take up, and the "click") before the trigger stops. I'd think there should be no movement in the trigger, unless the sear surface is too large. I'm guessing of course.
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Old December 8, 2010, 03:28 PM   #7
Pahoo
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Well, as the song goes; "You really got me going, now" ......
Through the years, Ruger keeps changing their parts. However, I don't think we are on the same page. You say that you only got the Trigger itself and earlier you said you also got a Hammer. Could you send me the part number of the kit? All of the sears and disconnectors that I have worked with, have a distinctive bored pocket and the sear spings fits loose. The only tapered small spring that I have seen, was the OEM trigger return spring.

Typically, the Volts. and Power Custom kits, contain the following.
Target Hammer
Hammer Spring
Trigger Return Spring
Hammer Bushings
Hammer Shims.

This is just the basic kit and there are other kits that can contain more parts.

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 8, 2010, 03:31 PM   #8
cptmclark
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Sorry, my mistake. It is a hammer and trigger kit. Sorry for the confusion. I have it apart again, and notice a bit of drag between the sear and disconnector. Maybe I should stone that area a slight bit. I am confused also, as I thought the hammer/sear mating surfaces were the actual trigger release points. This unit seems to have two such points (other one the sear/disconnector points. I don't know why two, but like I said, I'm no gunsmith. Sorry again for my shortage of info.
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Old December 8, 2010, 03:34 PM   #9
cptmclark
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The kit ID is Brownells, called the "743 RUG 10/22 DROP-IN HAMMER TRIGGER". The number is 181-377-000. The Clark blurb in the package has #743.
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Old December 8, 2010, 03:37 PM   #10
cptmclark
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Now I'm wondering if the sear/disconnector surfaces are the felt breaking points, rather than the sear/hammer contacts. In any event, I may need to stone off a tad of metal to reduce the engagement on the sear/disconnector surfaces, but hesitate to do it without advice. Does this thing in effect have two sear releases?
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Old December 8, 2010, 03:39 PM   #11
cptmclark
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PS: The trigger return spring is quite a bit larger, and does not have a small end. It does seem a bit stiff though, at about two pounds. Maybe that's normal. There are no shims, as the Clark hammer has that built into it for the spring contact. Again, the kit has two parts. Hammer and trigger. I'm not able to see how the trigger piece helps, as it has no contact points other than to hold the sear and disconnector in place. Oh yea, this one has a trigger stop, which I would expect.
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Old December 8, 2010, 04:03 PM   #12
Pahoo
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Now I'm wondering if the sear/disconnector surfaces are the felt breaking points, rather than the sear/hammer contacts.
YES !!

In any event, I may need to stone off a tad of metal to reduce the engagement on the sear/disconnector surfaces,
YES! and on OEM parts, this is recommended. But I don't understand why you should have to as you already paid for this.
I recall in one of the U-tube videos where this is done. I always do this and if you go lightly, there is no problem. Slightly round off some of the sharp leading edges.

but hesitate to do it without advice. Only use a hone !!! ....

Does this thing in effect have two sear releases?
Again; YES and in keeping with the spirit of what you are trying to say, there are to points of disengagment; the Disconnector to the Sear and the Sear, to the Hammer.

I still don't like where the hammer is letting off ....

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 8, 2010, 04:25 PM   #13
cptmclark
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Quote:
Now I'm wondering if the sear/disconnector surfaces are the felt breaking points, rather than the sear/hammer contacts.
YES !!

In any event, I may need to stone off a tad of metal to reduce the engagement on the sear/disconnector surfaces,
YES! and on OEM parts, this is recommended. But I don't understand why you should have to as you already paid for this.
I recall in one of the U-tube videos where this is done. I always do this and if you go lightly, there is no problem. Slightly round off some of the sharp leading edges.

but hesitate to do it without advice. Only use a hone !!! ....

Does this thing in effect have two sear releases?
Again; YES and in keeping with the spirit of what you are trying to say, there are to points of disengagment; the Disconnector to the Sear and the Sear, to the Hammer.

I still don't like where the hammer is letting off ....
Let me try to get this in one gulp. So there are two points of engagement. If they do not realease EXACTLY at the same time, wouldn't that be felt as creep? Or a drag/click/bang? I don't see the logic of this but no need to I guess. I'm confused by your comment that I paid for this (polishing the sear/disconnector surfaces). All I got was the hammer and trigger, which don't touch each other. The old sear disengages from the old disconnector. The only new disengage point that I see is the hammer/sear. I don't know what the function of the disconnector is I guess. It just seems to be in the way of a perfectly simple system. Oh yea, full auto protection maybe? In my ignorance, I don't know how the new parts provide the benefit they did (pull reduction) unless there is just less engagement surface on the new hammer. I've put it together again (getting pretty good at this), and checked the return spring for making sproingy noises when compressed. It does not. Putting the whole shebang up against my ear, I work the trigger over the "click" hump before hammer fall. This is about 20-30 thousands of "slack" I'm guessing. As I pull and release the trigger back and forth over this rough "creep" area, I hear the "sproing" sound of the spring, like an oil can sound in miniature. Maybe it's the surfaces disconnecting. I don't know. I'm also guessing that the drag and click I feel is the disconnector/sear disengaging, long before the hammer disengages, but maybe the spring coils hanging up and releasing as they go imperfectily into the hole in the sear. I'm really sorry to use so many words to say so little. I hope I'm more clear now.
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Old December 8, 2010, 05:16 PM   #14
Pahoo
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Quote:
I guess. I'm confused by your comment that I paid for this (polishing the sear/disconnector surfaces).
OKAY !!!
This is what you bought.. Right ??
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=5...ER_TRIGGER_KIT

Note what it says in the desription;

No time-consuming fitting or stoning required to get a true
"match-quality" trigger job on your Ruger 10/22. Deluxe Kit with modified, matched, drop-in parts delivers a crisp, clean-breaking, 2¾ to 3 pound trigger pull with adjustment for overtravel. Standard Kit doesn't have the sear; rework your original part when installing the Clark parts. Hammer and Trigger are available separately (components not matched).

You actually bought the trigger /sear sub assembly which include the Sear, Sear Disconnect, sear spring and trigger. Not just the trigger. You also bought the target hammer. All these parts should be matched and when they say, drop-in, they really mean just that or should mean that.
Quote:
If they do not realease EXACTLY at the same time, wouldn't that be felt as creep?
Not necessarly and doubt that you would notice it. Most of the felt creep is actually happening in the Sear to Hammer contact. That can also be reduced by changing the bite angle on the hammer and no,, I'm not going to explain that. ...

Power Custom make a bench block that you can mount your parts outside your trigger housing where you can really observe this operation. Only cost about $25.00 and give you the opertunity to really fine tune these parts.

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 8, 2010, 05:58 PM   #15
cptmclark
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Well, I see that I have the standard and not the deluxe unit by mistake. One digit difference in the number. The standard does not include the other trigger parts. The photo ad gives the description of the deluxe unit. My mistake I guess, I got the standard and I see I was only billed for the standard which the ad does say (now I see) in the fine print you must rework your old parts. You must think I'm an idiot, and now I'm not so sure myself. My intention was to have a nice drop in unit that would work, since I was intimidated by the smithy work. I do love to learn this stuff, but to start slow. Thanks for the help.
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Old December 8, 2010, 09:29 PM   #16
cptmclark
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I've considered buying the Power Custom jig after you mentioned it, and wonder if I will ever have occasion to do another 10/22 trigger. It sounds like I need to dress the hammer notch, as well as smoothing the disconnector to sear interface. Is that right? If you think I should drop back and punt, ordering the "deluxe" unit that has the matched parts, instead of trying to salvage what I have, please let me know. It's pretty clear I'm learning this from scratch. I do appreciate your patience.
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