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Old November 17, 2010, 11:09 AM   #1
fc286
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CCW

Considering ccw training but would like advice as to what I should look for in qualifications and experience regarding instructors. I see adds for CCW classes all the time but I dont want to pick one only to find out I didnt get enough training before packing heat. Use of force if not done right, I am afraid would cause a great deal of grief.
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Old November 17, 2010, 11:14 AM   #2
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Find one that does a turn-key program.

An instructor will only cover the basics; more in depth information can be found here on TFL and in the CHL handbook.
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Old November 17, 2010, 11:51 AM   #3
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Here in Missouri I've seen CC applicants rejected because their instructor was not on the approved list held by the county sherrif. A call to the sherrif's dept might be a good idea before choosing an instructor.
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Old November 17, 2010, 12:03 PM   #4
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im sure it varies state to state, and county to county. but i had to take an 8 hr class, plus an hour on the range, and 2 of those hours had to be spent on the legal side of using lethal force. there are places that will have you in and out in less than 2 hours, but will you be accurately informed when you leave and if you ever have to pull the trigger? my instructor was a SBI (state bureau of investigation) officer and formally a sheriff, state trooper, and detective...and yes i did some research on him prior to going to class.
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Old November 17, 2010, 12:18 PM   #5
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If your goal is to get a CCW, the only thing that matters is that the class meets your classes requirement.

If you want to learn how to use a handgun in a close quarter environment. Then look for a Suarez or CAR class. The problem is it may not meet the state's requirement.
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Old November 17, 2010, 02:22 PM   #6
Eagle0711
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Good for you, it's a wise decision.
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Old November 17, 2010, 03:46 PM   #7
tet4
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It's location specific - if you say what state you are in, people will likely be able to tell you which ones are better than others. However, most of the state set training requirements are extremely basic - you will want to find additional training no matter what, and recurring practice.
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Old November 17, 2010, 08:36 PM   #8
Tomaz45
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You do not say what state you are located in but here are some guidelines I use as an instructor to evaluate what is out there.
1. Does the course go beyond the minimum requirements?
2. Does the instuctor offer additional training ?
3. How much experience IN TEACHING does the instuctor have ? "Been there,
done that" is fine, but if that person has little experience in transforming
that information into an understandable format, they're a body guard
rather than a teacher.)
4. Does the course have "Limits"? In my state the permit holder can qualify
with any handgun, yet some instuctors limit their classes to ".38 cal or
greater", "no single actions" etc.
5. Is the course taught on a public or private range? The ability to address
a students individual needs is much easier on a private or closed range.
These are some things to look for in assessing what a course offers. While we all have "price considerations" this alone should not be the deciding factor. Ask for references, talk to those who have taken the course.
Good Luck, and remember that we never stop learning.
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Old November 17, 2010, 09:17 PM   #9
Iam2taz
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In addition to Tomaz45...
I would check with your local dealers. Check with several of them and see if the same name keeps coming up. - There is usually a reason that it does.
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Old November 20, 2010, 07:14 PM   #10
raimius
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I would suggest two classes. One for the legal requirments and legal side of using lethal force in your area, and one for learning to use a pistol from concealment at close distances.
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Old November 21, 2010, 11:50 AM   #11
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A CCW course is not a gunfighting class or a "self defense" class. The purpose of a CCW course is to show that you can safely handle a firearm without blowing your foot off, and to make sure you have some understanding of the legal issues surrounding the carrying of firearms and the use of force.

As long as your instructor meets the requirements for your state/county/whatever (however it works where you live), you should be fine.

Once you're done with that, find a class where they'll teach you how to fight.
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Old November 23, 2010, 03:31 AM   #12
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Don't know wht state you are in. But, In TX, it is not a learn to shoot or handgun training/tactics class. The class curriculum is dictated by the state. You need to know how to shoot before you get there.
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Old November 23, 2010, 08:27 AM   #13
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You're doing a good thing in being cautious. And you're right about the possible consequences, depending a lot on the situation and where you live. As has been said, "you may have killed him in self-defense, but by the time the lawyers and the media get through with you, you might wish you'd let him kill you instead."

Most CCW classes are little 1 or 2 day affairs that focus on situational awareness, legal concerns, state laws and so on. They typically include a demonstration of your shooting skill, like putting 4 out of 5 shots in a 10" circle at 25 feet, or something like that. They don't really get into "how to shoot" techniques, like how to spin around to one side or the other and shoot, how to reload quickly, etc. A CCW permit class is NOT "combat training."

So after getting your CCW permit, look around for more specific training. Your CCW instructor and/or local gun shops will probably know of some. Also check your indoor shooting ranges - people working in there usually know about it, and often have bulletin boards, batches of business cards, etc. from people offering such training.

- Ruark
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Old November 26, 2010, 08:36 AM   #14
deathrider
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I am awaiting to find out if I have to take a CCW class myself.

I had let my permit expire, but I had stopped carrying it concealed, except for keeping it in my glove box. or in my vehicle.

an incident 2 weeks ago is what got me back into & thinking hard, as well as re-applying for my permit. I was walking down to my truck after shopping for some groceries, someone was shooting at someone in the parking lot. I was 1/2 way between truck & store, totally helpless, but shooter ran off & didnt take aim my way. how does the saying go? better to be judged by 12 than carried by six! No I didnt need it but I sure wanted it on me for a couple seconds.

well because my permit expired by more than 1 year, actually 2 years, they said I am probably going to have to take a course. years ago when I first got a permit no classes were required & that was around 15+ years back for my first CCW permit I have had 3 permits, & now the county is giving me grief. person in charge is going to try to talk to the judge on my behalf to see if he will allow it to be re-newed without a course since I was a previous CCW holder. political b.s. I do understand it for new gun owners, but not for someone thats had one many years, but allowed it to lapse.

I submitted it last week, so waiting for how ever many weeks to see if it is approved? or if I got to be trained & then re-apply for a permit & wait again.

Randy
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Old December 2, 2010, 02:10 AM   #15
hondauto
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You're doing a good thing in being cautious. And you're right about the possible consequences, depending a lot on the situation and where you live. As has been said, "you may have killed him in self-defense, but by the time the lawyers and the media get through with you, you might wish you'd let him kill you instead."

Most CCW classes are little 1 or 2 day affairs that focus on situational awareness, legal concerns, state laws and so on. They typically include a demonstration of your shooting skill, like putting 4 out of 5 shots in a 10" circle at 25 feet, or something like that. They don't really get into "how to shoot" techniques, like how to spin around to one side or the other and shoot, how to reload quickly, etc. A CCW permit class is NOT "combat training."

So after getting your CCW permit, look around for more specific training. Your CCW instructor and/or local gun shops will probably know of some. Also check your indoor shooting ranges - people working in there usually know about it, and often have bulletin boards, batches of business cards, etc. from people offering such training.

- Ruark

This is my situation exactly.
I have my ccw and a lot of general firarm usage(and safety also),
But I have zero "real life" combat type of traning.
Which I plan on taking this coming spring/summer.
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Old December 2, 2010, 02:16 AM   #16
mak52580
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There were a couple of things that I looked for:

1. Experience of the instructor.
2. Amount of trigger time - going to the range for 30-45 minutes and firing off 25 rounds didn't cut it for me so that I personally felt responsible for carrying a gun and potentially having to use it to protect myself and others.
3. A class that specifically taught not only knowledge of firearms, but specifically the use of deadly force in my state and ramifications of such.
4. Classes which will qualify you for multi-state reciprocity. I know in some states this may not be feasible, but in mine it is.
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Old December 7, 2010, 07:51 AM   #17
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A ccw class should consist of Combat training, with a minimum of 300+ rounds down range, if it does not, it should be called a legal course. The Personal Protection I teach, students shoot up to 550 rounds and spend only 2 hrs in the class.

DD
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Old December 7, 2010, 07:54 AM   #18
egor20
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Had my CCW for about 10 years, I still take a "law" course every year as they are always changing.
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Old December 7, 2010, 08:33 AM   #19
Deputy Dog
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You should definately cover the laws of deadly force, and you are right, laws do tend to change often, that is why I tell my studentsto research the laws every year to make sure they didnt change. But most of the classroom stuff is going over Proper draw and presentation, Safety rules and holstering techniques, as well as immediate action drills and the different reloads.

Once we are on the range, safety briefing to include safe direction and three absolutes of gun safety and range rules and commands. All drills are done by way of demonstration after the instruction, weapons cleared, checked and double checked, dry fire the excercises until compitent, and the add live fire under close observation. Once the student is compitent with the drill with live fire, we move on to the next one. The course includes:

Loading & unloading refresh
Tactical and emergency reloading
One handed shooting (strong and week handed)
One handed operation (Strong and week handed)
Grip and stance preference
Draw and Presentation
Point vs precision shooting
Cover vs concealment
Bullets and vehicles
Multiple targets
Hostage situations
Shoot and no shoot drills
communication to: who, what, when, why
what to do after the incident
and more...

Inexpensive and learn alot....

DD
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Old December 7, 2010, 08:50 AM   #20
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fc286:

First I'd like to say that it may seem strange, but you're already ahead of the curve. I've known quite a few people that get their license, buy a gun, load it, and are done with it. "I don't need training. I don't need caution or practice. I have a GUN!" Not true. In your post, you've already accepted that you should get more training and I commend that wherever I see it.

I agree with Deputy Dog who did a great job listing the particular areas of training that would most benefit a sheepdog like yourself. That's what you need to be focusing on. I hope these fellas have answered your questions, and happy shooting.

~LT
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Old December 7, 2010, 10:56 AM   #21
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LT, thank you for the kind words. Alot of people think that they need to to attend big name schools to get great training. Although some of the schools are great in their methods and in the material, there are some that are not.
Usually, the Instructor who is former military or LE, has a little harsher way of instructing. I am former LE, but I have been teaching before I became a police officer. I always treat my students the way I want to be treated.

There is a stress simulation part of the class, but I tell the student that during that session there will yelling and screaming and gun shots and jogging in place, some push ups the dry and then live fire under very close watch and ready to act within arms reach away. Each students does this with an individual Instructor. Once the simulation is over, the students get a small dose of it with warning once in awhile to simulate what it is like in a deadly frce situation. They are also using dummy rounds mixed in with live ammo so they practice IAD in real time and with proper instruction and correction if need be.

If the Instructor has some real world experience, and has taken instructor course from some of the top name schools, ask them what topics are covered and what the round count will be? Also, have them tell you a brief description of themselves and like mentioned before see if you can get references from former students by all means I would.

DD
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Old December 7, 2010, 11:11 AM   #22
Deputy Dog
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The Instructor certificates and real word experience is what will benfit you in the long run. How they teach and what they teach is invaluable. Some students need the DI mentality in there Instructor in order to comprehend the seriousness of the material being taught. I only turn up the heat during the simulation rounds and when a student violates the Basic safety rules and just doesnt get it.

DD
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Old December 7, 2010, 11:29 AM   #23
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DD,

I completely agree. I've been taught by Pros at ranges, but the best instruction I've ever gotten was from my Grandfather who just knew what he was talking about, but was never a teacher.

The thing about mining for gold is that you can find it anywhere, but it's not going to jump into your lap. You need to dig. Read reviews of instructors, or have conversations with them. I don't know one real "Gun-Guy" that won't stop what he's doing and shoot the crap with you about guns and training if you're really interested. But where you're really going to hit it big is finding a teacher, professional or not, that will instill safety as paramount, teach you the basics on stance, grip, sight alignment, help you to develop some simple training regimines, and open your eyes to how much there really is to learn out there. If you find someone who can do this (and there are plenty), then you're definitely golden.

~LT
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Old December 7, 2010, 11:45 AM   #24
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There are all kinds of people who call themselves "instructors". Some are good and some, not so much. What is important to me is exactly WHO they have experience instructing.

I look for instructors that "instruct" as a profession. I look for someone who has at least been instructing full time for 5 years and at some point have instructed at a LEO or Federal level.
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Old December 7, 2010, 01:02 PM   #25
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FF, some of the best instructors I have had were part-time instructors and never taught at a An Academy or at a federal level, then I have had some that did both and including military. Some good and some not so good. If the instructor makes it interesting then you should learn alot. If you are struggling to keep your eyes open or he is to uptight then you probably wont get alot from the material being taught. Best way to know is by word of mouth advertising.

DD
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