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Old October 9, 2010, 12:40 PM   #1
centerfire1
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77 Grain 5.56 / 223

I recently read that Black Hills Ammunition is making a 77 Gr 5.56 / 223 round.

I think they are producing a 77 Gr for the military because of the poor performance of he 55 Gr/62 Gr. Don't know if you can purchase that one for the civilian market.

I was wondering if a 77 Grain bullet was available for reloading. I found some 77 Gr matchking bullets for target but I'm interested in a 77 grain for defense/hunting purpose,,,,is it out there for purchase?

T.J.
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Old October 9, 2010, 12:56 PM   #2
Jim243
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I use Hornady 75 grain A-Max in 223 (#22792) and they work extreemly well. But will only fit a bolt action rifle. If used in an AR it makes it a single shot rifle since they won't fit in the mag.


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Old October 9, 2010, 01:38 PM   #3
dlb435
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What is the twist rate of your barrel? You will need at twist rate of 1 in 8" to stabilize a 77 grain bullet. There is also the reduced load and speed you will get with a heavier bullet.
Most shooters turn to a 77 grain bullet to get better accuracy at long range, not to get more knock down power.
For self defense, the 55 grain bullet is hard to beat. At close range (under 75 yards) this round is truly devistasting. It will fragmnet on impact and do a lot of damage. In the current wars the military is involved with, there is a lot of open country and a lot of longer shots. The 223/5.56 does not perform well in that setting. If the 77 grain bullet would have helped; then the military would have gone to a heavy bullet a long time ago.
If you need more knock down power, get a larger caliber rifle.
FYI - I got curious and found that the largest animal taken with a 223 was a Polar bear! The guy didn't do this by choice. The animal walked into town and that was all he had. It took multiple shots at close range but the bear did go down. No humans eaten this time.
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Old October 9, 2010, 05:29 PM   #4
kraigwy
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The Army went to the 77 Grn SMK as their desinated rifleman round to extend the range of the M16s. To fill the gap between the M4 and sniper rifles on today's battle field. They and the DM Program conducted by the AMU/CMP are quite effective.

It is effective and contrary to myths floating around out there, at extended ranges it is a more effective stopper then the 55/62 bullets.

It holds its velocity, therefore energy better then the lighter bullets at extended range. A simple check of any ballistic tables will confirm this.

Again contrary to internet myths, the 55 grn bullet isnt magic. I've seen lots of people shot with the 55 grn M-193 in SE Asia, it works but its not magic. No fragmatation, no buzz saw effect that you hear about on internet boards.

I've used them in sniper rifles, they are plenty accurate and effective. Sight the 55s in at 250 yards and you can hit head size targets up to 300 yards.

The M16A1 was used somewhat as a sniper rifle in Vietham, and registered kiss at 700 yards.

If you don't like the factory 77s out there then you can reload, I use 24.5 grns of RL-15, extremely accurate out of my White Oak Upper. Personally I like the 80 SMKs for 600 & 1000 yards but they have to be loaded longer, and wont fit the mag. Matters not in target shooting because you single load anyway at 600 & 1000 yards.

If one wants to understand the theory of light fast bullets I recommend the P.O. Ackley books.
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Old October 11, 2010, 09:54 AM   #5
demigod
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Quote:
I think they are producing a 77 Gr for the military because of the poor performance of he 55 Gr/62 Gr. Don't know if you can purchase that one for the civilian market.
You can occasionally get blemished kick outs of the actual mil round. Not worth the price for civilian use in my opinion.

It's a great round apparently, but for realistic civilian defensive distances, M193 is fine. I use Gold Dot bonded 62 grain ammo in my defensive carbine.

Some times you can pick up that 8162N - 5.56 hornady TAP at ammunitiontogo. That's the full powered 5.56 load with a nice, long 75 or 77 grain match king bullet.
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Old October 24, 2010, 09:59 AM   #6
centerfire1
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77 Grain 5.56/223

My AR is a Bushmaster 16 inch M4. I'm fairly sure it's a 1-in-9 twist rate. I just now had a chance to get back to the forum and reply.

I really appreciate all the information. I guess I'm really trying to make the AR an all in one gun. On the subject of dependability ,,,and the difference between the standard impengment gas system and a gas piston system,,,how many rounds can you put through the standard system before having functioning trouble due to reisdue build up,,,etc,,

I'm on a limited budget and I'm trying to get as close to bridging the gap between the 5.56 and a 7.62X39.

I know you can go with a 6.8 SPC but I'm an old school type of guy who likes to stay with standard calibers like 5.56, 308, 45 ,,,etc,,etc.

I even thought about an upper in 7.62X39 because of all the ammo out there and the fact that it has more stopping power than the 5.56....I think I'll wait until they make a gas piston upper in a 7.62x39 available.

I'm just doing a little information gathering,,,again I appreciate your time and answers.

T.J.
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Old October 24, 2010, 10:17 AM   #7
centerfire1
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kraigwy,,,,,what 77 gr bullet do you use with your 24.5 grns RL-15 load? Manufacturer, type,,,etc,,etc?

Will this load perform well in the 16 inch barrel , 1-in-9 twist?

Thanks,
T.J.
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Old October 24, 2010, 10:38 AM   #8
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Shooting the Bushmaster "Predator" with a 1 in 8 twist, I've found it favors bullets in the 55-62 gr weights, using Hodgdon’s "Varget". When the right charge wt was found it started shooting sub ½” groups with ease.

Although my first thoughts were to work up loads in the 70-77 weights because of the twist rate, it simply wouldn't shoot the tight groups that the lighter bullets gave, no matter which powder I tried.

Respects,

Richard
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Old October 24, 2010, 02:16 PM   #9
centerfire1
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Thanks for the info. I suppose with all the available ammo in the 55-62 grain it's best to utilize that.

The AR's generally perform real well at ranges out there in the 2 - 300 yard range with the 55's & 62's.

I usually don't shoot a anything beyond those ranges anyway. Thanks again to all for your input.

T.J.
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Old October 24, 2010, 02:22 PM   #10
Ted
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Can you buy factory loads with 77 grain?
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Old October 24, 2010, 02:27 PM   #11
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I would buy a box or two to be certain that your 1/9 barrel will properly stabilize 77gr SMK bullets. 69 grain bullets should be about the longest that a 1/9 barrel will accurately support. Any keyholing is bad; especially at longer distances
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Old October 24, 2010, 03:30 PM   #12
centerfire1
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I'm not sure if you can purchase factory loaded 77 grain bullets or not. I've looked for them on all the major suppliers sites and cannot find them. What I would like to do is try some and then if they performed ok,,,,re-load them.

But, I'm kinda getting mixed signals here,,,,a lot of comments are that the 55-62 grain weight bullets perform as well as you need out to 300 yards or so,,,if that is the case,,,,that should be satisfactory.

I just read somewhere that the lighter bullets didn't perform well at the longer ranges so I thought I would check into a heavier bullet. I don't anticipate having to shoot at anything beyond 300 yards or so.

Great information sharing,,,,thanks guys.

T.J.
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Old October 24, 2010, 03:49 PM   #13
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Based on your rifle being a 1 in 9 M=4
69 gr bullets are about the heaviest that will likely shoot.The Sierra MK and the Nosler Comp work very well.I use 25 gr Varget.maybe 25.5,I'd have lo look. in It is a book load,you can look it up and approach it appropriately.There are other powder choices,also.I get 2783 over the chrono.
Not to say a M-4 won't shoot,I would have lower expectations from the pencil barrel non free float rifle.

You are more likely to get the MOA and less performance out of a free floated H-bar,DMR,DCM,or bull barrels.

Those 69 gr loads are nice out of a 1 in 9.Haven't tried the 68 Hdy's,probably about the same.
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Old October 24, 2010, 04:14 PM   #14
kraigwy
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Quote:
kraigwy,,,,,what 77 gr bullet do you use with your 24.5 grns RL-15 load? Manufacturer, type,,,etc,,etc?

Will this load perform well in the 16 inch barrel , 1-in-9 twist?

Thanks,
T.J.
I shoot SMK 77s out of a White Oak Upper, 1:7 twist, 20 In. Barrel. It's a Service Rifle, for NRA & CMP HP matches.

I'm not sure you can get 77s to shoot well out of a 1:9, only way to tell is try it.
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