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Old September 21, 2010, 03:42 PM   #1
threecharley
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aiming due to recoil?

is there a way to allow for the massive kick of the 44mag snubbie to hit your target more dead on? the kick almost seems to move me off target.
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Old September 21, 2010, 03:44 PM   #2
demigod
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The kick doesn't move you off target. It's the flinching that pulls the pistol off target a fraction of a second before primer ignition.

The pistol should be fired off of a rest of some sort to accurately determine the actual point of impact.
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Old September 21, 2010, 03:46 PM   #3
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makes sense, i'm kinda hangin on for dear life. lol
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Old September 21, 2010, 04:07 PM   #4
birdshot
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recoil

3charley, i have not shoot 44 mag in snub nose but i would think muzzle blast is high. If you have not been i recommend plugs and muffs for shooting to help with taming the gun.
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Old September 21, 2010, 04:28 PM   #5
Rifleman1776
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Muzzle blast is very high.
A pistol barrel does begin to rise before the bullet leaves the muzzle.
The greater the charge or weight of the bullet, the greater the rise.
Sight adjustments must be made for charge/weight changes.
However, with a snubby, I'll opin that just learning where the point of impact will be and doing a Kentucky hold will get you close enough.
A .44 mag. snubby ain't no target pistol. With it, close does count.
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Old September 21, 2010, 04:35 PM   #6
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Have it ported,,,

That's worked for several people in this forum,,,
Or so they have said in their posts.

.
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Old September 21, 2010, 04:56 PM   #7
threecharley
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heck i guess i'f i did miss the muzzle blast would knock them down or the muzzle flash would barbque them. lol
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Old September 21, 2010, 09:29 PM   #8
Slopemeno
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What will help you is enough practice, until the recoil and muzzle blast don't register any more. Join USPA or IDPA and shoot it regularly. Eventually it'll be second nature. Shooting bowling pins or a plate rack will really point up your breaks in focus.
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Old September 21, 2010, 10:21 PM   #9
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The sghts are regulated to account for barrel length. The longer barrels have a taller front sight to account for the fact that the bullet spends more time in the barrel, and the longer barrel will rise more during the act of firing.

Not trying to be Deutsche-Bayag , but if your POA does not equal your POI, it is not the gun. A short-barreled .44 Mag is not a common carry gun, and there are a number of good reasons for that.

To remain proficient with your chosen carry gun will require regular practice. If you choose to carry an exotic/powerful gun, even moreso.

In a real-live SD situation, you will not have time to reconsider and aim 2" (or however much) low.

IMHO, if you cannot shoot your carry gun frequently enough that you are proficient with it, you should carry something that you are proficient with.

I would not (and do not) carry a .44 mag...however, during the winter time I have been known to carry a 4" .357 Mag, .41 Mag or .45 LC. That said, I practice with all of them, and shoot each well.

Your life, your choice...choose wisely.

Edited to add: If you are not carrying it, or using it for SD never mind...but the first paragraph still applies.
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Old September 21, 2010, 11:25 PM   #10
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Consider using 44 Special rounds. I had a 44 snub and I found that for self defense I was a lot more accurate at practice with those. I used 44 mag in the field, for protection from wildlife, but 44 mag is entirely unnecessary and perhaps a detriment in self defense. You are obviously flinching badly with the 44 mag rounds anyway.
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Old September 22, 2010, 06:32 AM   #11
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+1 on practicing with .44 special before you make the move back up to magnum rounds. Also, consider investing a bit of money in a single stage reloading press and loading some lighter .44 rounds. I find that most people don't do it, or shy away from it, because the thought of loading your own ammunition tends to be a bit daunting and intimidating. Trust me, it is not as complicated or as large of an undertaking as it sounds. You can get started for about $150-$200 and be loading your own, specially tailored rounds, with lighter recoil in no time at all.

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Old September 22, 2010, 07:42 AM   #12
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When asked a similar question about the then new .44 Magnum, Elmer Keith stated "As for recoil, I suggest you ignore it".

The Zen of Keith.
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Old September 22, 2010, 07:59 AM   #13
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In my case...

... I found that with my .44 Mountain Gun, I shoot it much better when it wears a Hogue monogrip, as opposed to the Ahrends it came with or the Herretts that I had made for it.

(I LOVE the look and feel of the Herretts, until I fire off a hot magnum....)

With the Hogue, I don't expect pain; without the expectation of pain, I don't flinch or do any number of other undesirable things; without flinching or otherwise breaking my form, I get groups 50% or more tighter than with the woods.

YMMV

Cheers,

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Old September 22, 2010, 07:13 PM   #14
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The others have said what I'd say: use .44 specials instead, working your way up to magnums or only using them only if you need protection from wildlife; try a rubber grip, like Hogue's or one from Pachmayr (I'd recommend the Pachmayr Compacs); or have the barrel ported. Porting is permanent, so you have to be sure you want it. One of my .38's is ported, and I like it; it takes the edge off the recoil. The cost is that you get more muzzle blast, you lose a tiny bit of bullet velocity, and you can't use snakeshot. An even trade, I think.

Edit: I forgot, practicing with snap caps or empty shells can help prevent flinching. You can do it at home in front of the TV. You should be able to pull the trigger while balancing a coin on the front sight. It's better to get actual range time with the ammo you plan on using, but the snap cap trick helps with trigger control.
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Old October 11, 2010, 03:38 PM   #15
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+1 on Wolf's suggestion above, but strictly dry firing with an empty pistol at home will aid in trigger control to a degree, however, you will quickly overcome the flinch response as you "know" the pistol is empty and there will be no recoil. While I believe in dry fire practice at home it is not the end all to learning tirgger control.

I suggest you take it to the next level. At the range, let me stress "AT THE RANGE" have shooting buddy load your pistol for you with a mix of 1-3 live rounds and the remaining chambers loaded with dummy rounds. You will quickly determine if you are flinching when the hammer falls to an inert chamber.

If you flinch on an inert chamber, empty the pistol. Back on target with an empty pistol and conduct six "perfect trigger pulls with the empty case or coin on the front sight. If at any time the case or coins falls, start over until you have completed six perfect pulls. Once this is achieved, reload with a mix of live and inert and start over again.

I will also echo others by stating that maybe you should look at a different option for SD carry besides a snubbie .44. My EDC is a 5" Colt 1911 in an inside the waist band holster. Very concealable and much more controllable. Any flavor of Glock, M&P or similar should serve you well. Maybe a K frame Smith with .38+P's if you prefer a revolver? The recoil impulse from a .44 is sharp to start before you shoot it from a snubbie. Just saying. To paraphrase Clint Smith..."If you can't shoot faster than the other guy....shoot straighter."

Last edited by Bodyarmorguy; October 11, 2010 at 03:43 PM.
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Old October 11, 2010, 06:25 PM   #16
Slopemeno
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In all honesty, if you have to ask these questions, a .44 mag snubby isn't for you. It's like saying "Wow, this F-15 sure flies twitchy..."

If you want to stick with that platform, shoot .44 Specials.
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Old October 11, 2010, 09:50 PM   #17
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threecharley,

If you don't handload you are left with finding commercially manufactured rounds which can be fired from your handgun.

There are many .44 Remington magnum loads available. Buffalo bore makes two loads they refer to as "Lower Recoil". One is a 240gr load that is listed as: Lower Recoil .44 Magnum - 240 gr. JHP (1,350 fps/M.E. 971 ft.lbs.) - 20 Round Box.

As previously posted by others, the .44 special is an option. There are many loads in .44 Special from the classic 246gr lead round nose at maybe 800fps up to 255gr SWC (Keith-type) at about 1,000fps.

I do not claim to list the full ranges of the currently available loads in both cartridges, but put this out to you for informational purposes.

You can have fun spending time searching for knowledge on the internet if you are inclined to do so.
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Old October 11, 2010, 10:41 PM   #18
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First....

Don't fight the recoil. It sounds like you are trying to "handle" the recoil. Simple fact I'm sure you are slowly realizing now. You can not fight the recoil. All you are doing is "flinching" and not hitting your target.

Take your time and make them count. Aim and simply pull the trigger nice and slow and keep it on target - once it goes off - let it and try not to "flinch."

Flinching is a major hurdle to overcome (once you have developed it pretty bad). There are some simple exercises you can do.
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Old October 11, 2010, 10:55 PM   #19
threecharley
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Thanks oldkim!
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Old October 12, 2010, 01:49 PM   #20
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Recoil v Flinching

The post by bodyarmorguy is spot on and has an excercise I hadn't hear of. I also agree very heartily with slopemo. Personally, unless you live in grizzly country and spend a lot of time outdoors, I've never seen a realistic reason for owning a 44 mag or 454 causal. ( Not addressing the collector or accumulator gene that many in the gun community have )

I don't carry (yet) and own a GP100 with a 4" barrel and an SP101 with a 2.25" barrel, each is a Home Defense gun and gets plenty of range time.
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Old October 22, 2010, 06:44 PM   #21
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i'm sure i'm late but i'll put it out there anyway. i was in the army. they teach you how to shoot...and quite well. someone who never touched a rifle in their life could shoot like a pro in weeks. and often better than those who "knew how to shoot" before joining. no bad habits to unlearn. after going too long without shooting, i came back with bad habits. so i took my rifle of choice and dry fired it countless times, for days. i'm now hitting 600 meter sillhouettes consistantly again. the dime method (coin on the barrel) is great for both breathing and trigger "squeeze" (not "pull"). there are also a lot of ways to work on sight picture and such. my suggestion, find someone giving a class and take it. don't like that, buy a video or some books. don't like that, maybe you can find something online. step 1, learn proper techinques and use them in an empty weapon. step 2, apply to live ammo. in the army, you "practice" fire with absolutely no ammo for a week before you ever fire that first bullet. develop the technique before you develop the bad habits you'll have to break. make it second nature. as for what that technique is, i'll give you the army's answer...breathe, relax, aim, squeeze. everything put out by others covers those four steps...one thing they left out a lot is "relax" though. you HAVE to be comfortable and relax. cheesey as it sounds, i have my own zen, meditation method (yeah, i'm a black belt too, sorry, carries over). i relax my body by taking a few slow, steady breaths. then i continue that steady, calm breathing, sight my target, and squeeze in the natural pause between breaths. so on top of everything everyone said, find a way to calm yourself.
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Old October 22, 2010, 08:34 PM   #22
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+1 on not controlling the recoil. Just let it happen, accept that it will happen. All you can do is make a perfect trigger pull and let the gun do it's thing.

The amount, type, direction, whatever type of recoil there is, well, that's what it is. The key is to keep your focus on the front sight, and allow the gun to recoil. That's the gun's time to do it's thing. Your time is when you pull the trigger. Learn to share.

Track the front sight through recoil and watch it return to your index. Once it's there, repeat that perfect trigger pull for another shot on target. Slow, steady practice will lead to fast, accurate shots with nearly any caliber.
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