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Old September 14, 2010, 07:03 AM   #1
Sigma 40 Blaster
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Tall IDPA'ers - Advice Please

Last classifier match I shot I did well on Stage 1 and Stage 2. Stage 3 is always a bear, but I finally figured out exactly where I go wrong after having a buddy spot for me to determine which shots were giving me problems.

Stage 3 is where you have the tall partition at 20 yards from the targets and a barrel 15 feet from the targets. Strings 2 and 3 were my biggest problem spots, specifically kneeling behind the barrel engaging targets. My 20 yard shots were all 0, 1, or 2, the kneeling shots were 2, 3, or 5.

My approach to this as a right handed shooter is my left foot is my plant foot, my right knee is on the ground, I'm about a yard away from the barrel so I can lean forward and around the barrel.

I feel awkward trying to kneel down behind this barrel on one knee, keeping my head below the top of the barrel, and shooting around it. I'm so stretched out and off balance I'm lucky to hit anything. Kneeling shots where the cover is over four feet has not presented any issues for me. Any 6 foot plus IDPA'ers have this problem and conquer it? If so please advise.
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Old September 14, 2010, 08:19 AM   #2
Nowhere Man
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Let me start by saying I'm not over 6'.

Try shooting with both knees on the ground. One knee down is faster if you need to get back up. Two knees on the ground is more stable. Two knees on the ground with your butt on your heels is even better.


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Old September 14, 2010, 08:59 AM   #3
MrBorland
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Since you don't have to get up and advance from this position, try sitting on your foot. Plant with one foot, go down on the other knee, and keep your non-planted foot turned in a bit, and sit on it as you sit back.

It gets you lower than sitting on your heel(s), and feel it's more stable (for me) as well. Considering the cost of bad shots from an unstable position, it doesn't take much time to get into, either.

Caveat: I'm not over 6', either, but ran into a similar problem shooting long targets through a low port while kneeling, and found that sitting on one foot was a good solution.
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Old September 14, 2010, 01:19 PM   #4
g.willikers
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There's a couple of other methods you might try, to be able to get lower and still sight the gun.
One is do it with the strong side knee up, instead of the weak side.
Then you can get your head and gun lower, below the raised knee, and somewhat supported by the side of the leg.
Or kneel with both knees on the ground to get lower, as been said.
One of these might work for you. once you practice it some.
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Old September 14, 2010, 04:39 PM   #5
RickB
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You do not have to hold the gun or your head below the top of the barrel, as long as the gun does not break an imaginary line that extends vertically from the barrel, so if you think scrunching down low is a contributing problem, try sitting up taller. While shooting the classifier is not something that most people come to me about looking for tips, I am 6'4" tall, and when shooting around the barrel on stage three, I drop in the middle of the barrel to both knees, shoot around the strong side for the first two targets, then switch to the other side for the last one; it may not be as fast as continuing to pie around the strong side, but I get better hits because I'm in a more natural, upright "stance".
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Old September 14, 2010, 05:24 PM   #6
Jim Watson
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Due to what you might call structural limitations, I pretty much have to put the left knee down behind low cover. Then just hunker down as required to stay below the top of the barrel or whatever prop.

Some tall lanky guy name of Sevigny drops to both knees. He can pretty well stand straight back up, too. I have heard that he learned that as a hockey goalie.
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Old September 16, 2010, 08:53 PM   #7
CatsEye
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RickB is right. Don't try to get below the top of the barrel, it isn't required.
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Old September 17, 2010, 08:02 AM   #8
Don P
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Quote:
Don't try to get below the top of the barrel, it isn't required.
Wrong, the rule book states that the shooter will shoot from either side of the barrel with 1 knee required to be on the ground using the barrel as cover
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Old September 17, 2010, 08:14 AM   #9
Jim Watson
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I think the point was that the gun and the line of fire had to be below the top of the barrel, the top of the shooter's head does not necessarily have to be.
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Old September 17, 2010, 11:25 AM   #10
RickB
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Oopsie, see below.
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Old September 17, 2010, 11:29 AM   #11
RickB
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Quote:
Wrong, the rule book states that the shooter will shoot from either side of the barrel with 1 knee required to be on the ground using the barrel as cover
Who said you didn't have to use cover? You must have 50% of your upper body, and 100% of your lower body behind cover, but you do not have to have the gun or your head below the top of the barrel.

"As for stage three, it is not an absolute that you shoot under the height of the barrel. You do have to shoot from around the side and "slice the pie" as such. Because it can be very difficult to see if a person is "slicing the pie" around the barrel, most MD's end up requiring people to stay under the height of the barrel otherwise people end up getting PE's for shooting across the top of the barrel.

I hope this helps answer your questions. Have a good week and a great shooting season.

Thank you,
Robert Ray
International Defensive Pistol Association"
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Old September 17, 2010, 11:33 AM   #12
Jim Watson
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Not in the Classifier, maybe, but I have seen many a match stage with a board laid across the top of a barrel and a requirement to shoot under the board/below the top of the barrel.
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Old September 17, 2010, 01:08 PM   #13
RickB
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We do that, more often than not, as well.
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Old September 17, 2010, 03:27 PM   #14
g.willikers
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Ironic, ain't it.
IDPA was invented because USPSA had gotten too gamy and less realistic.
And now folks are trying to figure out how to game the IDPA classifier.
If realism is still important, it would seem that having one's head stick out above the top of the barrel isn't very.
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Old September 18, 2010, 11:05 PM   #15
CatsEye
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From the IDPA forum.

http://idpaforum.yuku.com/reply/38809#reply-38809
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Old October 19, 2010, 06:33 AM   #16
Jeff22
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double kneeling

I shoot with both knees on the ground. It provides a more stable platform to lean out and around the side of the barrel to engage the targets.

I always try to remember NOT to crowd cover.
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