The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 8, 2010, 10:24 AM   #1
Claddagh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 6, 2009
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 313
Need Some Help to Complete a Project -Please!

Several years ago, I bought a Norinco ATD (Browning .22 Auto copy) in excellent overall shape except for a broken "finger" on its extractor for $35.

I bought the Browning replacement part from Brownell's and it dropped in with next-to-no fitting required. The little rifle functioned fine and turned out to be surprisingly accurate and fun to use. Because of that and the handiness of its take-down configuration it became one of my favorite "knock-around" rimfires.

(Minor Rant follows: Please excuse, but it's directly related to my current problem.)

As my eyesight has deteriorated with advancing age, I decided to make some sight upgrades that had worked out well for me on my other woods bumming companions. I had the receiver drilled and tapped for a Lyman 66 that I had and the stock open rear replaced with a Marble's folder. I'd also asked the gunsmith to install a FO front.

This fellow (who will remain nameless for reasons that'll become obvious) advertises himself as a Trinidad program grad and had a good rep locally.

Over six months later, I finally get a call to come and get my rifle. Everything seems to be in order (shame on me for not checking more thoroughly before I accepted delivery!) except the front sight hasn't been replaced. I'm told that this is because the dovetail is grossly oversized (it is, at a whopping 0.426") but that he'd test fired it and it worked fine with the stock one so he didn't think it was worth the time and expense it'd take to work out a replacement. I took him at his word, and paid the $125 and change he charged me for what he had done.

It was several weeks before I could get to the range with the idea of resetting the 'zero' for my ammo and eyes. It wasn't a pleasant experience.

Not only did it now refuse to feed more than a couple of rds without jamming, but the POI was from 4 to 6" high at 50 yds with the rear sight bottomed-out and several different brands of ammo. "Test-fired", my rear end!

I (belatedly, I know) field stripped it to see if I could figure out what was causing the feeding problems and discovered that the cartridge stop was missing! I put it back together and went home in a semi-major funk.

The following Monday I called the "gunsmith" and told him what I'd found. He absolutely (and very indignantly) insisted that he HAD tested it, it functioned fine, shot fine and that I must have lost the part after it left his shop, therefore I must be "full of s--t and it's not my problem".

Folks, I swear that I did not remove that trigger group until that abortive range trip. I'm no expert, but the missing part was immediately obvious when I finally did. And there's no way that both the POI problem and the functional issues wouldn't have been immediately obvious to anyone if they'd actually tried to shoot it either.

It's strictly a "He says/I say" situation, so naming him here would resolve nothing while making me look like a possible jerk. But I really want to get this little project completed and could sure use some input on how best to go about getting that FO front on there, preferrably with the least further outlay of cash.

I ordered a replacement cartridge stop from Numrich, which should restore the functioning to its former reliability.

The best I've been able to come up with so far for a possible front sight fix is to dress-down the stock front to more or less match the barrel contour put something like a Williams "Shorty" ramp over it by drilling and tapping the remainder for the screw. Not a pretty or elegant solution perhaps, but almost certainly a lot less work than trying to cobble-up my own FO blade from scrap and definitely a bunch less expensive than custom fabrication by a pro.

What I'm not at all sure of is just how feasible that might be. My barrel is only 0.5765" near the muzzle and I have no idea of how well the Williams ramp's dimensions, especially the radius, might match up with it. If there's anyone out there who has used these and is willing to give me some data and/or possible alternatives, I'd be very much obliged to them!
Claddagh is offline  
Old October 10, 2010, 04:54 PM   #2
nogo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2009
Location: central texas
Posts: 211
Call the technical assistance guy at Brownell's. Look at their catalog online. I seem to remember a chart or instructions there to answer these questions.

Also Marble made ramps and may be able to help.
nogo is offline  
Old October 10, 2010, 10:11 PM   #3
guncrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2006
Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large
Posts: 319
Sorry you had a bad experence from a Trinidad graduate.
May be this Trinidad graduate can make up for the goof and being less than stellar in truth.

Sounds that you need a .500 TO .625 tall sight/ramp combo.
I would solder on a .250 williams ramp ( with your thinner barrel) and a taller front sight.

CEW
__________________
CW Shooters Supply Inc
1-866-217-5990
Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public

Last edited by guncrank; October 10, 2010 at 10:18 PM.
guncrank is offline  
Old October 10, 2010, 11:38 PM   #4
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 19,835
You might consider a banded ramp; they have them in close to that size (.571) that could be fitted and cover up the dovetail as well. The drawback is that they might be too high and also are pretty expensive. But it is something to talk to Brownells about.

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old October 11, 2010, 11:12 AM   #5
Claddagh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 6, 2009
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 313
Very much appreciate the answers.

I've seen the sight calculation chart in the Brownell's catalog. I used Hamilton Bowen's simplified method (sight radius in inches X amount of POI correction needed in inches) / range in inches = amount of correction for front sight in 1/1000" and came up with 0.0471". Added to the existing front sight height of 0.410" and adding a 'fudge factor" to allow some latitude for adjustment to compensate for different ranges and ammo this gave me a figure about identical to what guncrank advised.

From what little dimensional data about the Williams "Shorty" I can find it's supposed to be about 0.250" across the base of the dovetail. Since this is the size guncrank specified that he'd use, I'm guessing that this is the model he's talking about. It's supposed to be made so that it can be installed with silver solder or a screw. The screw requires either d&t'ing one hole or using a "gib lock" adaptor in the dovetail.

I have vanishingly little experience in "silver" soldering and it seemed to me that trying to use the Williams factory adaptor would present the same kind of dimensional problems because it too is sized for a standard 3/8" dovetail. That's pretty much why I thought that grinding-down the existing front sight to match (as much as possible) the approximate barrel contour and using it as the "adaptor" might be more practical.

Jim, I was really, really tempted by those beautiful NECG banded ramps you mentioned. They look so elegant and have so much of that old British "Best Quality" custom panache! If this were a nice Belgian (or even Miroku) Browning we were talking about, I might be more willing/able to rationalize giving in to that temptation. As it is, I've already dumped way more time and cash on this little venture into "From sow's ear to silk purse" territory than most sane people would even consider, and I greatly fear that the cost for the additonal part(s) and the skilled labor I'd have to buy in order to go that route might make even my most tolerant and indulgent of spouses think seriously about having my mental competance examined

I will be giving the Brownell's tech folks a call to see what they've got to say before I buy any parts, just for some "belt-and-suspenders" reassurance. Hopefully, I'll at least end up with a usable sow's ear.
Claddagh is offline  
Old October 11, 2010, 01:45 PM   #6
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,289
Or you could cut, crown, and have a new correct dovetail in a slightly shorter barrel. If you could find a real gunsmith.
Jim Watson is offline  
Old October 11, 2010, 03:11 PM   #7
Claddagh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 6, 2009
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 313
Yep, I suppose I could do that, Jim. There's gotta be a couple of those somewhere here in Indiana. But it'd almost certainly entail adding another $100+ to the semi-ridiculous sum I've already got tied up in what's essentially a $150 rifle. The major appeal of the ramp solution to me is that it's a way for me to get a usable rifle with about the least additional cost, as the job wouldn't involve anything that I don't already have the correct tools and basic skills to do myself.
Claddagh is offline  
Old October 13, 2010, 02:10 PM   #8
guncrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2006
Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large
Posts: 319
C you can soft solder on the ramp. I use the ribbon solder Brownells sells.
If you brought that to me to fix, I would but barreled action in my Foster jig and drill a spotting hole that the screw would fit into. Not tapped , just major diameter.
Clean blue off of barrel and bottom of shorty ramp
A twist of tie wire and a kittle flux and a piece of ribbon solder.
Propane torch and presto.
That how this Trinadad State Junior College graduate (84) would do it.
CEW
__________________
CW Shooters Supply Inc
1-866-217-5990
Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public
guncrank is offline  
Old October 14, 2010, 07:39 AM   #9
Claddagh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 6, 2009
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 313
guncrank, would you mind if I PM'ed you? I'd like to ask you a couple of questions and ask some advice.
Claddagh is offline  
Old October 14, 2010, 12:36 PM   #10
guncrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2006
Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large
Posts: 319
Go right ahead
CEW
__________________
CW Shooters Supply Inc
1-866-217-5990
Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public
guncrank is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09072 seconds with 9 queries