The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 9, 2010, 11:12 AM   #26
Glenn Dee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,487
Thanks Aguila
Glenn Dee is offline  
Old October 9, 2010, 01:49 PM   #27
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,710
I'd like to know what a 75-48A is. Some sort of reference to a PA statute? Or a report form that arresting/investigating officers have to submit?
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old October 9, 2010, 03:47 PM   #28
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 5,491
Can someone tell me if as a NY resident and with NY CCW and PA CCW ,can I carry concealed in Philly or must I have a special Philly permit ?
__________________
And Watson , bring your revolver !
mete is offline  
Old October 9, 2010, 04:35 PM   #29
swinokur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 17, 2009
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 215
The PPD wording on the memo is poorly worded. There is no special permit. Any permit that PA recognizes is ok in Philly.

PA does have preemption but a special exception was made in the law that just affects OC in "cities of the first class" which means 1 million or more population. Philly is the only city in the state that meets the exception. All other PA firearms laws apply in Philly. The exception is only for OC

I don't see this law as any different than a sobriety checkpoint. The cops have no RAS but stop you anyway. How is that legal?
swinokur is offline  
Old October 9, 2010, 07:21 PM   #30
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,710
Sobriety and seatbelt checkpoints have been specifically rules acceptable by the Supreme Court, and to be legal they have to meet certain criteria. Not being even a pretend lawyer, I don't remember what those criteria are. Nonetheless, criteria applicable specifically to motor vehicle checkpoints at specific locations are not applicable to stops at will be any officer on any street.

I think the Philadelphia police department really REALLY needs to re-read the SCOTUS rulings on Terry and Hiibel. Terry clearly established that before a police officer can detain an individual there must be "a reasonable suspicion, based on clearly articulable facts, that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed."

As I posted above, given that open carry in PA (and Philadelphia) is legal with a carry permit, the mere sight of someone carrying a firearm openly does not and cannot give rise automatically to a "reasonable suspicion" of criminal activity. Now, if the officer happened to recognize the individual and know that the individual is a convicted felon and thus a prohibited person ... that's the sort of thing that would give rise to a "reasonable suspicion based on clearly articulable facts."

As to verifying permits -- how does that work? I don't live in PA. I have non-resident permits from both FL and NH (among others), both of which are recognized by PA. So if I am stopped in Philadelphia in the middle of the night for open carrying (to use an EXTREMELY unlikely scenario) ... how long is it going to take the Philadelphia PD to contact anyone in FL or NH to confirm that my permits are valid and current? Suppose I only have FL ... the FL permit is issued by the Department of Agriculture. My guess is that they don't man the phones 24/7, waiting for calls from the Philadelphia PD to verify carry permits. Or what if my permit is from Alaska, Wyoming, Montana, or one of those states?

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; October 9, 2010 at 10:47 PM. Reason: Typo
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old October 9, 2010, 07:44 PM   #31
swinokur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 17, 2009
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 215
I know a couple of reciprocity agreements that were cancelled due to lack of a 24/7 phone number for license verification. I can't remember which one. I have permits from VA,FL,UT, and NV. The only one with a 24/7 phone number for verification is UT. This is a freakin mess.
swinokur is offline  
Old October 12, 2010, 02:48 PM   #32
ViperGTS19801
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2010
Posts: 1
Ha! Looks like the news is spreading.

This update came about as a direct result of me being stopped in Philly with my gun, which I carry openly. I have a PA LTCF. I filed a complaint because I was treated like a criminal during the stop, even though they did eventually give me the gun back.

However, a second confrontation occurred on South Street a couple of weeks later, and my firearm was confiscated because I "refused to conceal." Public safety my ass, more like poorly trained cops.

Anyway, here's a link to how all this mess got started.

http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...ost-149-a.html
ViperGTS19801 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07202 seconds with 9 queries