The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 2, 2008, 11:20 PM   #26
XavierBreath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2002
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 2,800


It is quite possible that the grips, if they are in good shape, would sell for around $200 by themselves.

If the revolver is not refinished, and the pearl grips on it are original, you could expect to find a buyer willing to pay $350-400 for your revolver, possibly more.

If you refinish it, you might be able to sell the entire gun and grips to someone for $250 total. They would be buying it to get the grips.

Refinishing an old firearm is akin to drinking beer. It feels good for a while, but eventually the money goes in the toilet.

Below is a similar Smith & Wesson M&P of mine. They are fantastic shooters.

__________________
Xavier's Blog
XavierBreath is offline  
Old November 3, 2008, 08:28 AM   #27
jpeebles1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2008
Posts: 11
10-4. Thanks.
jpeebles1 is offline  
Old November 3, 2008, 11:51 AM   #28
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
"Refinishing an old firearm is akin to drinking beer. It feels good for a while, but eventually the money goes in the toilet."

That's presupposing that you'll live long enough to see what is still a common model revolver, over 90,000 of them were made, escalate enough in price that its value with a ratty finish would trump its value with a redone finish.

Old simply does not instantly equal valuable.

What you'd be able to get for it is also highly dependent on location. Here in Northern Virginia prices are significantly above prices in rural Pennsylvania.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old November 3, 2008, 11:56 AM   #29
jpeebles1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 19, 2008
Posts: 11
Can you suggest a competent refinisher, just so I could see what those costs would be and weight the two alternatives?
jpeebles1 is offline  
Old November 3, 2008, 05:05 PM   #30
XavierBreath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 2002
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 2,800
Fords is showing $280 for bright nickel.

Maybe Mike can come up with another refinisher that does polished nickel. Most of them that I know of do hard chrome, blue and teflon type coatings.



edited to add photo of a S&W refinished in polished nickel at Fords.
__________________
Xavier's Blog

Last edited by XavierBreath; November 3, 2008 at 07:38 PM.
XavierBreath is offline  
Old November 3, 2008, 06:47 PM   #31
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
The only shop I know that did nickel plating on handguns went out of business years ago. They did a great job.

They had been in business for 70+ years and had the rampant hazardous waste nightmare to prove it.

There are shops that do electroless nickel plating.

Personally, I would call Brownell's gunsmithing hotline and see if they have someone whom they would recommend.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old November 13, 2008, 06:57 PM   #32
stepj19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2008
Posts: 4
I have a similar gun and would love it if someone could give me some info.

rt side of barrel (38 s&w ctg)

lt side of barrel (SMITH AND WESSON)

lt side of barrel also says (notenglishmake) and has three symbles that resemble diamond rings. in the first symble are the letters BV in the second are the letters BP and in the third appears to be a letter N.

top of barrel (smith and wesson springfield mass. USA)
patented feb. 6 06 sept. 14 09 dec. 29 14

on let side of frame were barrel attaches is stamped with (notenglishmake and the small BV symble again.

directly below that visible when magazine is rolled out is stamped(4 96 62) with the letter A or R above it.

the magazine is stamped with many more of the small diamond ring markings.

lt side of body above trigger is a very small X with tiny letters or numbers around it.

rt side of body ( large s&w trade mark REG. U.S. PAT. OFF) it is also stamped made in the USA.

It has pearl handles that are in perfect condition. however the handles do not have the large fastener or symble near the top of them. they have a small screw in the center only.

The number on the bottom of the handle are (393803) and the letter V is to the left.

my grandfather owned this for as long as ive known. i inherited it.

it is not plated and appears to be all original blued and is in great condition. it was kept under his mattress for the past 30 years at least.
thanks for any info.
stepj19 is offline  
Old November 13, 2008, 08:46 PM   #33
stepj19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2008
Posts: 4
also what amo does it use .38 special or .38 S&W

and it has a lanyard ring on the bottom of the butt.

thanks for any help.
stepj19 is offline  
Old November 13, 2008, 11:11 PM   #34
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,501
Your gun is a .38/200 British Service Revolver aka .38/200 Victory. They were sent to Great Britain under the Lend-Lease Act during World War II. The little symbols you're seeing are military inspection marks and/or proof marks. British law at the time required guns to be "proofed"- test fired- before they could be commercially sold.

Check this link and go to Page 3, you'll probably be able to identify at least some of them:

https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/P...Proofmarks.pdf

The gun should have the words "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" or possibly "U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D.", including the quotation marks, stamped across the topstrap. This reflects their Lend-Lease status, since the U.S. was legally "lending" the guns to the Brits. These guns were originally chambered in .38S&W (not .38 Special), but they often had the cylinders reamed out to accomodate a .38 Special case when they were resold.

If the gun will chamber a .38 Special cartridge, be aware that .38Spl uses a slightly smaller diameter case and smaller caliber bullet (0.357" vs. 0.361") than .38S&W. .38Spl cases will often bulge when fired in these guns, which may make extraction difficult, and accuracy is often subpar if you use jacketed bullets. Stick with soft lead bullets because they'll bulge and engage the "oversize" rifling better.

The factory stocks (S&W terminology for grips) were smooth walnut. The pearl ones were added for resale. The revolver probably did not originally have blued finish; most Victories in this serial number range had "Black Magic" finish, which is a dark grey matte finish similar to parkerizing. They were often refinished for resale. Also, revolvers have cylinders, not magazines.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old November 14, 2008, 08:43 AM   #35
stepj19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2008
Posts: 4
thanks for the info. it doesnt say u.s. property anywere on it?

also it is a black looking matt finish. so if 38 special shells fit then that means it has been re chambered? just dont want to fire the wrong amo.
stepj19 is offline  
Old November 14, 2008, 10:34 AM   #36
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,501
Quote:
it doesnt say u.s. property anywere on it?
Look closely at the top of the gun. The markings tend to be shallow and may be filled in with grime. OTOH a limited number of these guns were issued to guards at factories in the U.S. and were not stamped, but this theory is contradicted by the abundant British export proof marks.
Quote:
so if 38 special shells fit then that means it has been re chambered? just dont want to fire the wrong amo.
Yes, but you can still fire .38S&W ammo in it, and you may have better results with .38S&W because you won't have problems with bulged cases.

The only caveat is that .38S&W is notoriously lousy as a defensive cartridge. It operates at very low pressures by modern standards because it was intended for 19th-century S&W top-break revolvers, and it generates velocities down in the 600 fps range. (The reasoning behind its adoption by the British as a military service cartridge has been questioned ever since it first occured. )

I have one of these guns in its original chambering and it's absolutely wonderful for punching paper and plinking. It's very accurate, the trigger is great, and it only has about as much recoil as a high-velocity .22LR. OTOH if the gun hasn't been rechambered and you intend to use it for SD, I'd recommend trading it for something in a harder-hitting caliber.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old November 14, 2008, 01:10 PM   #37
stepj19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2008
Posts: 4
well i finally found the stamp it says US property ghd. do you know around what year it was made and its value. i really only plan on firing every now and then. it was my grandfathers so it will spend most days in the gun case.

thanks for all your info.
stepj19 is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 01:35 PM   #38
armsmaster270
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1,948
It's the Smith M&P I have a 4" with the large head ejector rod just like yours S/N 61651 Matching S/N's on crane, frame and bottom of grip frame

Last edited by armsmaster270; November 27, 2008 at 01:36 PM. Reason: punctuation
armsmaster270 is offline  
Old December 1, 2008, 01:55 PM   #39
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
IIRC, once the United States entered the war in late 1941 S&W was no longer required to mark its revolvers "US Property."

Many hundreds of thousands of .380/200s were supplied to British and Commonwealth forces after the war.

Strictly speaking, any true "Victory Model" should NOT be stamped "US Property" as the US entered the war before the V serial number was introduced.

At least I think that is correct.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old December 1, 2008, 03:43 PM   #40
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,501
Quote:
IIRC, once the United States entered the war in late 1941 S&W was no longer required to mark its revolvers "US Property."
The Lend-Lease program persisted for the duration of the war, and almost all Victory revolvers bore some version of the U.S. PROPERTY stamp, including most of those bound for American military service. IIRC the only consistent exception are Victory revolvers issued to civilian guards, some of which seem to have been distributed outside of the normal military supply chain.
Quote:
Many hundreds of thousands of .380/200s were supplied to British and Commonwealth forces after the war.
I'm almost positive that production of Victory revolvers was shut off almost immediately after hostilities ceased. By mid-1945, S&W's management was chomping at the bit to catch up on a huge backlog of civilian and LE K frame orders and to bring back the N and I frames, which had been discontinued in 1942 along with the last of the top-breaks to make room for greater K frame production. Postwar .38S&W "pre-Model 11" K frames are quite rare items.
Quote:
Strictly speaking, any true "Victory Model" should NOT be stamped "US Property" as the US entered the war before the V serial number was introduced.
Plenty of Victories are stamped as such; see above.

OTOH there is some debate about what constitutes a true "Victory". Some collectors regard only the .38Spl models as "Victories" while the .38S&W (.38/200) models are called "British Service Revolvers". Some collectors refer to the early-production military guns without the "V" prefix as "pre-Victories". However, it is increasingly common practice for people to refer to all WWII K frame guns as "Victories", despite these other technicalities.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old December 1, 2008, 03:58 PM   #41
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
"after the war."

Whoops. That should have said "after the US entered the war."


"The Lend-Lease program persisted for the duration of the war, and almost all Victory revolvers bore some version of the U.S. PROPERTY stamp..."

Hum... Looks that way.


Yeah, I really went the wrong way in this answer.

But, I'm a purist in what I considered to be a "Victory" model.

If it doesn't have the V prefix, which was initiated in early 1942, it's NOT a Victory model.


Oh, but technically? What I said about the marking is true.

Once war was declared, the laws for the marking of goods distributed to friendly combatants no longer applied (I can't remember specifically, but I don't think that provision was specifically part of the Lend-Lease Act originally, but was attached as a rider).
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old April 30, 2009, 04:51 PM   #42
Cambrown94
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 30, 2009
Posts: 1
38 s&w special

I recently bought the gun, it is kinda rough from being carried in a holster. With bullets in the cylinder you can shake it and the bullets all move except for the one inline with the barrel. Is this normal and safe to shoot?
Cambrown94 is offline  
Old September 28, 2010, 05:39 PM   #43
TSweet
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2010
Posts: 1
Trying to date my grandfathers gun

The one I have in hand doesn't even come close to the numbers you all show. His says it's a .38 S&W special CTG (cartridge). But on the barrel, butt and revolver are 5 numbers only, 530##. patented feb.6.06Sept.14.09dec29.14. Looks like a chrome finish. All I've been told is it belonged to his Dad (according to Grandma). Any ideas what the age or model? I'd appreciate it, because I really like to be able to trace the story a little better. Thanks in advance.
TSweet is offline  
Old September 29, 2010, 08:20 AM   #44
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
Where are you getting that number? From the bottom of the grip?

S&W used 5-digit "assembly floor" numbers in the crane cut on revolvers this old that have nothing to do with the serial number.

If that is the serial number, that makes it a pretty early gun, probably US entry into WW I.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old October 2, 2010, 02:27 AM   #45
DG45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 904
Its your gun to do with as you like, but I sure wish you wouldn't refinish it. Its an old-fashioned looking gun with a lot of "character", and if it could talk, I'm sure it could tell you some pretty wild tales about where its been and what it's seen. But since it can't talk, all it can do is show you its battle scars and let you guess how it got them. I love that about an old gun.

It'll still look just as old-fashioned after its refinished, but those 100 years of "character" will be gone.

You'd have liked my father-in-law. My mother-in-law inheirited about 10 antique oil lamps from the early to middle 1800s. Any one of them would be worth hundreds, or maybe even thousands of dollars today if my father-in-law hadn't decided about 50 years ago to make them all useful again by electrifying them. Now they're worth about $10 to $15 apiece. But they're still useful.
DG45 is offline  
Reply

Tags
38 special ctg , s&w

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12877 seconds with 10 queries