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Old September 12, 2010, 10:07 AM   #1
daleo8803
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45acp 1000fps?

i was looking in one of my manuals ( modern reloading) and none of the loads for 230 grain lead bullet go over 980 fps. is there a powder that will do this with out damaging the gun? or is there a factory ammo? thanks

dale
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Old September 12, 2010, 10:10 AM   #2
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Old September 12, 2010, 10:12 AM   #3
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The double Tap is an exception. In general, the 1000 fps+ commercial ammo is made with lighter bullets. The 230 is not only heavier but longer than the lighter bullets, reducing powder space while adding mass to accelerate. The combination just doesn't lend itself to achieving 1000 fps without exceeding .45 ACP pressures.

As to powders, Alliant has a new Power Pro powder designed for maximum performance in magnum pistols. I don't know if it can be loaded down to .45 ACP pressures or not? You might call and ask them about that possibility? Otherwise, Power Pistol and Accurate #7 do about as much with the .45 ACP as anything can.
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Last edited by Unclenick; September 12, 2010 at 11:32 AM. Reason: typo fix
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Old September 12, 2010, 10:13 AM   #4
Jim Watson
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980 fps is darned fast for a 230 gr .45 ACP. I doubt you will find anything within SAAMI pressure limits to reach 1000. I also doubt that anything but a chronograph could tell the difference between 980 and 1000 fps. Purely a psychological effect.
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Old September 12, 2010, 10:37 AM   #5
daleo8803
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cool. thanks guys! i was just wondering. thanks

dale
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Old September 12, 2010, 01:19 PM   #6
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I don't even see 980fps with a 230gn FMJ as being easy to achieve or easy on the gun or easy on my wrist. The .45ACP is not a round for anyone who wants velocity.
If you and your gunsmith adjust your gun to handle a bit more pressure, you can load +P ammunition, but why not go 10mm Auto then.
You also can buy a L.A.R. Grizzly in .45 Win Mag and have all the velocity you can handle.
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Old September 12, 2010, 04:41 PM   #7
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I would think if any gun could do it safely, it would be a Ruger Blackhawk .45 convertible.

The Speer manual has a special section for loading .45 Long Colt in that model, along with the T/C Contender. With 230 grain bullets the listed velocity often goes over the 1000fps mark. Yes I know .45 Colt is not .45 ACP, but my point is...if the Ruger convertible can regularly shoot 1000fps+ using the Long Colt cylinder, why not the ACP cylinder as well? I know that case volume is way less, but if a load could be found that doesn't cause pressures beyond what the beefier Ruger can handle then why not?

The dangerous side of that is leaving such ammo around so as to mistakenly shoot it out of a lighter gun. That's just asking for trouble.

Last edited by GWS; September 12, 2010 at 04:50 PM.
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Old September 12, 2010, 04:50 PM   #8
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Ace's customs converts 1911s to 45 super... I'm not sure what all he does to get them to handle the pressure, but I'd be willing to bet that one thing would be a ramped barrel that adds a little more chamber support to the base of the brass. Kinda like what a Para Ord or Browning Hi Power has.
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Old September 12, 2010, 05:18 PM   #9
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I think your asking a lot to push a 230gr 1000fps. It can be done but you would be at the limits.
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Old September 12, 2010, 09:15 PM   #10
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I ran Quickload looking for 1,000fps w/ a 230gr RN out of a 5" barrel.

It coughed politely.....
:barf:

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Old September 12, 2010, 09:30 PM   #11
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I found that Mag Tech offer a 230gr JHP at 1007fps and is advertised as a +P load. It has over 500lbs of energy at the muzzle. I dont think it would be fun in my 3.5" Officer Model though.
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Old September 12, 2010, 10:59 PM   #12
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Pushing the limits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldscot3
Ace's customs converts 1911s to 45 super... I'm not sure what all he does to get them to handle the pressure, but I'd be willing to bet that one thing would be a ramped barrel that adds a little more chamber support to the base of the brass. Kinda like what a Para Ord or Browning Hi Power has.
Stronger recoil spring and maybe a replaceable slide stop cushion that sacrifices itself so your frame doesn't take the beating and eventually crack. I read about the conversions quite a while ago and don't remember much.

Aside from the 45 Super and 45 Win Mag, there is the 460 Rowland. The 460 Rowland is a cartridge based on the 45 ACP dimensions, but just a little longer (like 44 Special vs 44 Mag and 38 special vs 357 Mag and 40 Smith vs 10 mm). That relieves GWS's concern about hot ammo being used in a standard chamber/barreled gun.

However, if you don't separate your brass assiduously, it is possible to reload a 460 Rowland along with your 45 ACP brass, in which case you get one mighty crimp, which you DON'T want. The round so loaded will chamber (and presumably fire, with disastrous results, I am sure) in a standard 45 ACP gun. Ask me how I know. Better yet, don't ask.

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Old September 12, 2010, 11:13 PM   #13
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You are getting into 45Super territory.

I have done it and more with my modified G21 and 1911.

Remember your JHP will open up faster and fold back on themselves.
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Old September 13, 2010, 06:20 AM   #14
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"...ah, that's not ENTIRELY true..."

Alliant Power Pistol and Vihtavuori N350; be very very careful.
Use new sized cases ONLY; I recommend IMI.
Use CCI300.
Use the longest OAL that functions perfectly every time.
Install a minimum-weight recoil spring of 18.5lb.

I suggest the 230g lead bullet come from www.PennBullets.com

Using a chronograph, carefully map your loads using .2g increments, watching for a loss of linearity.



CAUTION: extreme ammunition will increase wear and decrease service life.
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Old September 13, 2010, 06:22 AM   #15
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Sounds more like .45 Super as mentioned.
But I think it's my Sierra manual(might be Hornady) so don't quote me yet...has .45 auto loads specifically for revolvers chambered in .45 auto that are waaayyyy up there and from memory....beyondo.

My handguns go haywire with stovepiping and all sorts of issues when velocities go beyond the standard recoil springs intended poundage. Seems to start right around 900fps, so trying it likely means new spring rates.
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Last edited by alloy; September 13, 2010 at 07:07 AM.
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Old September 15, 2010, 09:28 AM   #16
daleo8803
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thanks for all the info guys! i was just wondering if it could be done..... LOL never heard of a 45 super before tho.

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Old September 16, 2010, 11:23 AM   #17
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Found it!

I have found the load that you are asking for but there is a catch.I have a Midway U.S.A Loadmap manuel for the 45 ACP and I did find one load that is a 230 gr 1000 fps load.It is a Midway 230 gr LRN bullet over 10 gr of HS-6 at 21,000 psi,in Remington brass with a Remington 2 1/2 primer.
The catch is I don't think that bullet is available anymore.The closest thing to it that I see is a RCBS 45-230-RN.The Midway bullet has a larger grease groove by the looks of it and thus has less bearing serface.Otherwise they look much the same.If you still want to persue this try calling Midway and ask who's mold they used when they carried their own line of cast bullets.
As always start low and work up and don't substitute other components randomly.The RCBS bullet tops out at 989 fps with HS-6,at 982 fps with Unique,981 fps with Acc #5,and 961 fps with IMR-700x all with max loads at 21,000 psi.No data is given for which is the most accurate load.Be extremely careful if you are going to load this hot.
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Old September 16, 2010, 06:29 PM   #18
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http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=241631

I would like to second Lost Sheep. If you’re going to beat a 1911 that hard take some advice and get a recoil buffer. They are cheap and will increase the life span of a 1911. And maybe stop a frame from cracking .
I own one of the Ruger convertible Blackhawks in 45 ACP and I have loaded some hot rounds in ACP but the gun was so inaccurate it was a total waste of time.
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Old September 16, 2010, 09:28 PM   #19
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Welcome to the asylum, GWS. One issue with your 45ACP and 45Colt analysis is the relative case size. Same gun, good. Smaller (and weaker) case-not so good. If you want to make a .45 bullet go fast there are better cases than the 45ACP to launch them from.
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Old September 17, 2010, 01:11 AM   #20
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I got over 1000 in .45 ACP once. Almost 1100. Pulled the rest of the bullets and crossed that load out in the manual.

That load flung the brass about 30 feet.

I won't post it here, but you can look it up in the Hornady manual. Power pistol with 230grn HP-XTP. It's the red one. Don't use it if you like your pistol. I started having new feeding issues in my Mil Spec after using it.

-J.
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Old September 17, 2010, 09:34 AM   #21
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Win T Series 45 +p is pretty close at 990 fps.

Product Symbol: RA45TP

Description:

•Reverse Taper Jacket Design
•Consistent, Reliable Bullet Expansion Through Common Barrier Test Events
•Excellent Accuracy
•Positive Functioning

Cartridge: 45 Automatic PBullet Weight: 230Muzzle Velocity: 990Ballistic Co-efficient: -Barrel Length:
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Old September 17, 2010, 09:41 AM   #22
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"I got over 1000 in .45 ACP once. Almost 1100. Pulled the rest of the bullets and crossed that load out in the manual.

That load flung the brass about 30 feet.

I won't post it here, but you can look it up in the Hornady manual. Power pistol with 230grn HP-XTP. It's the red one. Don't use it if you like your pistol. I started having new feeding issues in my Mil Spec after using it.

-J. "

Second that, I loaded a little under that, didn't seem too bad on the recoil, but I got tired of chasing the brass, couldn't believe how far they went. Chrono'd at 1020fps if I remember correctly.
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Old September 17, 2010, 10:01 AM   #23
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My $.02.........

230 gr .45 ACP @ 1,000 f/sec?

Possible? It *can* be done. That does not mean it *should* be.

850-900 f/sec with a 230 grain XTP will do anything that ought to be done with a .45 ACP.
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Old September 17, 2010, 11:32 AM   #24
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Why a lead bullet?

At the speed you want, there are just about no lead bullets that are suitable, in 230gr wt. Not and stay within regular working pressure for the .45acp.

1911A1s will handle pressures slightly higher than normal, but suffer accelerated wear from it. There are things you can do the the guns to compensate for this, but most of them would have to be undone to return the pistol to flawless function with standard power ammo.

If you want that speed, with that bullet weight from a .45acp, I'd start with a jacketed bullet. And, go carefully. Yes, there is increased resistance, but you won't get leading!.

There's no free lunch.
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