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Old September 14, 2010, 11:05 AM   #1
eyeball_jerry
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What Fruit Best For Testing

I can't find good, normal guy, info on penetration and over penetration of different handgun rounds, even rifle rounds. So I am going to do some tests myself, good reason to get some new guns :-)

I want to shoot some type of media, I am thinking fruit as it is easy to get and transport, I can't use ballistics gel, and I think that a Boxing Dummy would be too dense. I was thinking the water in the fruit would facilitate the hydro shock good enough for my tests. If you feel otherwise please tell me.

I have searched, if you know of a topic here i should use just let me know. Anyway, I want to put the round through the media with two standard walls behind it, sheet rock, studs, second with insulation. I hope to find the round that will best penetrate the media and then stop without over penetration.

I will post my results when i get to the fun part as for now, any ideas on the media to use, watermelon, pineapple, pumpkin?
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Old September 14, 2010, 11:11 AM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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Two things:

1) I don't think that any fruit has a consistency that will yield meaningful results for anything except over-penetrating a grapefruit.

2)Over-penetration is almost entirely a phantom issue. Look at the number of rounds fired that completely miss the intended target in defensive situations. That singular, theoretical round that happens to hit AND happens to exit the other side is very near the bottom of a very long list of things to worry about in a defensive firearms situation.
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Old September 14, 2010, 11:18 AM   #3
eyeball_jerry
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maybe just use the walls?

The above does make sense. Perhaps just use the walls to see the results? I agree missed targets are more likely than all hits, however hopefully people have training to help that. I still think the exploding fruit evokes fine images.

I just have that nagging voice in my head about having that 45 letting loose up stairs, hopefully it never happens, however this spring someone was trying to get in the house while we were home. Thank god they didn't get in, so i didn't have to step up to another action other than calling the police.
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Old September 14, 2010, 11:23 AM   #4
demigod
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Start saving your heavy laundry detergent jugs, or any other similar strong jugs and fill them with water.

Any bullet testing you'll do has already been done professionally, so you're really just having fun doing this.

I use a few heavy jugs and a phone book behind them to catch the bullet. Regular gallon water jugs work too, but they're kind of weak and allow deeper penetration.
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Old September 14, 2010, 11:33 AM   #5
eyeball_jerry
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For sure it is for FUN :-) just like a reason to give the warden as to why that shinny toy shows up. Plus, fun to do some hands on testing.
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Old September 14, 2010, 12:40 PM   #6
scorpion_tyr
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If you're worried about over penetration with a handgun use a good name brand JHP and instead of testing ammo on poor innocent fruit, be a responsible gun owner and train for target aquisition.

As stated above, in an actual self defense shooting there's a lot of stray rounds, so one of the most important things you can do is get a good target identification which also means knowing what's behind your target. If it's a wall with your kids' bedroom on the other side, you might want to re-consider taking the shot, no matter what kind of ammo you have.

If you're worried about over penetration with a rifle, use a handgun.
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Old September 14, 2010, 12:44 PM   #7
ClydeFrog
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Robert Boatman, Youtube.com, watermellons...

The late author & firearms expert Robert Boatman; www.Boatmanbooks.com has a few interesting www.YouTube.com clips of him blasting away with his Glock 36 .45acp at some big ripe watermellons, .
Boatman is an interesting character. I do not agree with 100% of his thoughts or remarks but he does have a easy-going style & tell-it-like-it-is manner.
His non fiction books are very detailed but not for those who get upset or irrate with ease re; firearms, politics, etc.

As for other ammunition test media, try wet phone books or newsprint or Knox & Kind brand gelitin(check correct spelling, Im saying Jello).
Old gallon milk jugs filled with water(or a few frozen) could help too.

Be safe and make sure you are aware of your backstop, .
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Old September 14, 2010, 01:06 PM   #8
carguychris
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Quote:
Be safe and make sure you are aware of your backstop...
Speaking of which, be aware that when you shoot water jugs, some bullets are going to yaw, particularly military FMJ rifle rounds. Make sure your backstop extends well above and to the sides of the jugs, and position the jugs fairly close to the backstop so a round angling upwards won't go over it.

FWIW to get back to the original question, my favorite fruit to shoot are bois d'arc apples aka osage oranges aka horseapples. The reason has nothing to do with their ability to simulate flesh or any other media; I like them because they're available in huge quantities for free, their coloration is bright and easily visible, and they come apart in chunks, so you can shoot them multiple times.
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Old September 14, 2010, 03:18 PM   #9
Carne Frio
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This guy's methods, while not scientific, are repeatable
and seem to be good for comparisons:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/
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Old September 14, 2010, 05:16 PM   #10
Raines
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+1 for boxotruth

As for FUN overpentetration testing, thats just plain fun, but without any real scientific results....Cardboard box with 12 inches of wet newspaper, 2 peices of drywall 4 inches apart, and another box of newspaper...

Here are my Scientific results...

.22 LR is NOT good for stopping a rampant bundle of wet newspaper

12 guage #8 birdshot will only pentrate to the sports page

.223 This weak round will only go through the first bundle of paper , the drywall AND the second bundle of paper, with a good chance of wounding the innocent mountainside behind it..

And lastly

.45 auto, I hit the paper in the arm and it spun around 4 times and died from massive amounts of hydrostatic shock ..and stuff
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Old September 14, 2010, 05:21 PM   #11
abelacres
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+1 for box o truth
+10 for Raines
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Old September 14, 2010, 08:53 PM   #12
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demigod
Any bullet testing you'll do has already been done professionally, so you're really just having fun doing this.
You're probably right.

Can you give me a link to the professional expansion and penetration testing for Remington UMC Personal Defense JHP in .45 Auto? I've heard conflicting things about its expansion and I would like to see the "official" test results.
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