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Old August 28, 2010, 07:25 PM   #1
golfnutrlv
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Conversion Kit's Legal Implications if used for SD.

Hi everyone, looking for some opinions, reads, ideas regarding conversion kits.

I own a Sig P226 E2 in 9mm. I have been saving up for a .357 Sig Caliber Exchange kit from Sig, and this question has been brewing in my mind.

What are the legal issues if I ever had to defend my life with the .357 Sig Conversion kit? The ammunition would be factory if it was carried.

I really don't think I will carry .357 that much, but just been thinking.

The real idea of the kit is to give me a fun caliber to shoot, and a good woods gun without having the buy another gun.

Thoughts, ideas??
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Old August 28, 2010, 07:38 PM   #2
robhof
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As longs it's a legally purchased conversion, I can't see any possible problems. I bought a 40 S&W barrel and slide for my M9 and regularly switch back and forth, I also have a 45 BH convertable in 45Lc and 45 Acp, as well as a Single 6 in 22Lr and 22 mag.
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Old August 28, 2010, 07:39 PM   #3
Gary L. Griffiths
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I can't see any legal implication vis-a-vis 9mm vs. .357 Sig. Or .40 S&W or .45 ACP for that matter. Deadly force is deadly force, and if you're justified in using it, you're justified.
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Old August 28, 2010, 08:18 PM   #4
m&p45acp10+1
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Caliber is not the point in a self defense situation. It boils down to justifiable use of deadly force. As far as from a liability standpoint many LE agencies use .357 Sig as the department issued caliber. Tx DPS does.
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Old August 28, 2010, 08:31 PM   #5
golfnutrlv
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Thanks for the insight so far guys. I tend to be a little paranoid about the legal aspects, and what can be used against me in court.
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Old August 28, 2010, 09:03 PM   #6
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So do you think it would be a problem if you were carrying a .45 that you had to use if you had a .22 in the safe at home? Or if you were carrying a .357 loaded with all .357 mags instead of .38's to begin with?
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Old August 28, 2010, 10:12 PM   #7
knight0334
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Either you are justified to use deadly force or you aren't. That is the primary basis.

If you are justified, you are legal to use what tool you have in hand whether it be a .38spl, a knife, 12ga, a Ford bumper, a cannon, a baseball bat, a .30-30, a .357sig on a 9mm frame, etc, etc, etc..
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Old August 29, 2010, 12:31 AM   #8
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Opinions expressed here are just that, opinions, and not reality. That includes this one. If you use a fire arm, and are charged with anything, it comes down to the opinion of the jury, the opinion of the District Attorney, the lawyers and judges involved. I also think it depends upon your jurisdiction. In San Francisco you just might be toast. In Texas it might go completely different.
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Old August 29, 2010, 01:25 AM   #9
johnwilliamson062
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You bought this conversion specifically to make your gun more deadly correct? The standard round used by the military in WAR wasn't enough for you, you needed a more powerful and more deadly round, didn't you?

Any lawyer can turn facts on end. If you use deadly force, even justifiably, you are probably screwed no matter the circumstances or fact.
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Old August 30, 2010, 07:08 AM   #10
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Like John said above, facts can get twisted pretty quickly.

I wouldn't worry about using the conversion kit but I would be worried that I only fired as a last resort and only as needed to protect myself or others from severe harm or death.
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Old August 30, 2010, 10:23 AM   #11
Frank Ettin
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I don't think it would be a problem.

[1] Some gun modifications could raise concerns in the legal aftermath of a defensive gun use, but I don't see this as one of them. Your SIG P226 is available from the factory in .357 SIG. With the conversion kit, you're just turning you 9mm into a SIG you could have otherwise purchased in the first place.

[2] The .357 SIG is the standard issue cartridge of a number of police agencies.
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Old August 30, 2010, 01:53 PM   #12
Jim March
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The total energy downrange with high-end 40S&W and 357Sig rounds is very similar. Total non-issue in my book. You switched for greater feed reliability from the bottleneck rounds, right? (And that IS a legit issue.)
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Old August 30, 2010, 02:36 PM   #13
Glenn E. Meyer
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There's no guarantee about anything.

The basic principle from research and the real world seems to be that if your choice of action and equipment can be painted as to implicate that your action indicated a blood lust as compared to thoughtful self-defense, you can be in trouble.

That depends on jury characteristics also.

The 357 Sig is a round used by law enforcement and not a particularly extremist weapons choice.

If, God forbid, you end in court, you need a lawyer who is aware of the implications of weapons type at trial and can tell your story and defuse extreme implications.

The idea that if you are justified to use force, method doesn't matter doesn't really speak to the decision sequence.

The decision to take you to trial might be influenced by the DA and grand jury's view of your weapon in an ambiguous shoot.

So you go to trial and the same factors can influence a jury.

The worrisome path is not the GOOD SHOOT - it is the ambiguous shoot, where such factors come into play.
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Old August 30, 2010, 04:15 PM   #14
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
Thanks for the insight so far guys. I tend to be a little paranoid about the legal aspects, and what can be used against me in court.
No doubt it will be used against you. Everything will be used against you. The type of gun, type of ammo, etc. will be used against you if somebody gets a chance to use it against you, regardless of how appropriate it might actually be. The question is if a conversion kit woud cause you more problems than whatever the original gun is and I don't see how that would be the case, though an aggressive lawyer might take more time trying to explain the conversion kit to the jury.
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Old August 30, 2010, 04:33 PM   #15
Glenn E. Meyer
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One should be a touch paranoid about legal aspects.

Opinions on the Internet mean nothing.

A well prepared defensive gun user should:

1. Be aware of legalities through training and reading.
2. Have or get a lawyer who understands the specifics of firearms usage for your defense.
3. Have said lawyer be able to find appropriate experts. If you train with folks like Ayoob and others, you can have expertise at your disposal.

The worst thing to do is to assume that if someone says that if it is a good shoot then you will be OK.

You may be immediately cleared but you'd better get to an attorney ASAP.

All those folks on death row who said they were innocent and turned out to be innocent had an exciting time before they were cleared.

Thus, we might think the conversion is no big deal. However, you need to have a lawyer that can present this story from both a rational view point and an appearance/emotional viewpoint if that is needed in your defense.
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Old September 4, 2010, 08:36 PM   #16
ET.
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I understand where you are coming from with this thread. I have a Glock 27 that I convert to a 357sig for Carry purposes. The 357sig penetrates a lot more than the 40 does. I will only carry it in a hollow point (good idea anyway with most calibers). If you shoot the 357sig and it passes thru your target and into someone else or their baby...well it could get bad. If you Kill someone that you didn't intend to, then you are in a heap of trouble. The legal implications could destroy you financially & emotionally. It is even more important to be sure the path is clear behind the perp before you shoot with a 357sig.
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