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Old August 23, 2010, 08:47 AM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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Obama Administration Blocks Import of 100,000 M1 Garands and Carbines from S. Korea

Dave Kopel is reporting that the Obama Administration has blocked the import of over 100,000 rifles. These rifles are M1 Garands and M1 Carbines that were provided to the government of South Korea by the United States. South Korea wishes to sell these on the U.S. market now that these rifles command a good price.

However, the Obama Administration has objected to the sale of the weapons and pressured the South Korean government to scrap the plan. Among the objections are that the import, which meets every aspect of United States law regarding firearms, may result in more firearms accidents or possible criminal/terrorist use.
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Old August 23, 2010, 10:18 AM   #2
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The linked website forgot to tell you that the importation of M1 carbines and M1 rifles by US companies has been illegal for many years. Bill Clinton banned the re-importation of M1 rifles and M1 carbines under the "sporting purposes" clause of the 1968 gun control act.

Bush I had previously banned the importation of foreign semi-auto milsurps. BTW:Bush II refused to over-turn either ban.
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Old August 23, 2010, 10:36 AM   #3
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I remember hearing about these M1's and carbines before.

Frankly, I'm glad they're banned from being imported under their current intention, to have a commercial importer like Century bring them in and sell them on the open market.

Normally I'm all for open market tendencies, but these should go back to the US DOD, then passed on to the CMP program for sales to CMP-affiliated shooters. Garands and carbines are different than other surplus rifles. They have different souls, and need good homes. The CMP finds the best possible owners for these types of rifles.
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Old August 23, 2010, 10:46 AM   #4
teeroux
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Quote:
but these should go back to the US DOD, then passed on to the CMP program for sales to CMP-affiliated shooters.
Why? Folks who aren't in a club or CMP affiliated less deserving? Less apprieciative of fine american warhorses?
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Old August 23, 2010, 12:05 PM   #5
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Teeroux:

In short, yes.

In long:

#1 - Anything imported by CAI or other importers ends up getting re-serial numbered in a very tacky manner. Garands and Carbines don't deserve that abuse.

#2 - Imported Garands and Carbines will sell somewhere between $750 and $1250 through a commercial importer. Through the CMP, they'll sell between $500 and $750.

#3 - Jumping through the (minor) hoops of the CMP is not that big of a deal. Go to one stinking High Power match, CMP clinic, or Appleseed course (or other affiliated program). The extra legwork on the part of the customer makes them appreciate the heritage and legacy of these rifles. Frankly, I think they DO end up going to better homes where they are lubed properly and subject to less instances of home Bubba-smithing.

#4 - These rifles were loaned out during the Cold War, at a time in our nation's history that the CMP was running in its prime and people remembered that the Japanese seized American land during WWII (Alaskan Islands). The need for armed, competent American Riflemen was understood. These rifles were expected to come back home at some point and be processed through the CMP. In essence, anything that touches the DOD ever in its lifespan should belong to the CMP when retired.
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Old August 23, 2010, 01:27 PM   #6
Al Norris
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AFAIK, these firearms were part of the Lend-Lease Act and Korea paid nothing for them. Should Korea no longer want/need them, they belong to the DOD.

Korea now wants money for something they never paid for.
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Old August 23, 2010, 01:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
#3 - Jumping through the (minor) hoops of the CMP is not that big of a deal. Go to one stinking High Power match, CMP clinic, or Appleseed course (or other affiliated program). The extra legwork on the part of the customer makes them appreciate the heritage and legacy of these rifles. Frankly, I think they DO end up going to better homes where they are lubed properly and subject to less instances of home Bubba-smithing.
Or, show your DD214, your law enforcement credentials, or even better, head to Camp Perry one year, shoot rifle or pistol--and then BUY one, RIGHT THERE, at the CMP North Store.
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Old August 23, 2010, 01:35 PM   #8
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Some of those already made it in a few months ago. A batch was imported by SOG. The quality was absolutely dreadful.

By "dreadful," I mean that 3 of the 5 my shop ordered were not safe to shoot. The two remaining ones were rough at best. Worse than the Blue Sky imports, for those who remember.

As for the political reasons, we have only one unconfirmed statement from "a South Korean official." This could be incorrect.

As much as I respect Mr. Kopel,
Quote:
President Obama was elected on the promise that he supported individual Second Amendment rights.
is a bit disingenuous.
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Old August 24, 2010, 09:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
A batch was imported by SOG. The quality was absolutely dreadful.
I can believe it.

The CMP has the existing spare parts infrastructure and in-house knowledge to properly refurbish the majority of these rifles to service rifle standards. As well as the wisdom and patience to set aside parts that cannot be safely re-fielded to the public and sell or otherwise recycle the remaining components of the rifle.

SOG/CAI and their like do NOT have experienced Garand plumbers.

The quality of a $600 CMP M1 is far and above that of a $1000 SOG/CAI Garand. The purchaser saves $400, gets a safer and more accurate rifle, and a dose of education (via the purchase requirements) added in. It's a win-win for all parties concerned.
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Old August 24, 2010, 11:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Why? Folks who aren't in a club or CMP affiliated less deserving? Less apprieciative of fine american warhorses
Well that's not really the case. There are several exemptions to the Club Rules.

In addition to shooting clubs, the CMP also has several special affiliates. Membership in these organizations satisfies our requirement for purchase. These special affiliates include: Congressionally chartered veterans' organizations such as the VFW, AL, DAV, MCL, etc. U.S. Military services (active or reserves), National Guard, to include retirees. Professional 501(c)3 law enforcement organizations and associations such as the FOP, NAPO, NSA, etc.

http://www.thecmp.org/eligibility.htm

However, the CMP and its forerunner the DCM were commissioned by congress to instruct Civilians in Military type Marksmanship instruction. The Club membership was suppose to insure that was the purpose of buying the surplus rifles.

Under the DCM tax dollars funded the training, where as under the CMP, surplus sales funds the training.

Where else can you buy surplus military weapons from the government?

Most of the guns you get from CMP now are turn backs from countries we loaned the rifles to after WWII. Part of the agreement was these rifles were to be turned back to the US if they were deemed no longer needed. (Hence the current Greek Return M1s available now).

It's not Obama that's the problem here as indicated by the Topic Heading, its South Korea. Instead of turning back the rifles per the loan agreement, they want to sell them to us on their own. I'm not sure its legal for US Citizens to buy military arms from foreign countries, and that is pre-obama rules.
(the illegal part is just a guess on my part, I can't lay my hands on the law)
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Old August 24, 2010, 12:10 PM   #11
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Lend-Lease officially ended on August 21, 1945 and was never renewed.

The M1 Garands and Carbines provided to Korea were provided as direct military aid in the wake of the Korean War and were, as far as I know, given to Korea to do with as they wished. Unlike Lend-Lease materials, they became the property of the Republic of Korea at the time they were transferred to Korean possession.

Korea was never a participant in Lend-Lease because the whole of the Korean Peninsula had been, since 1910, a colony or protectorate of the Japanese Empire.
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Old August 26, 2010, 06:31 AM   #12
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Besides that these rifles are way old and out dated....

yes, I like the M1 for collectors sake too...

why would we buy these rifles from them after we gave them to them?

Should not S.Korea just give them back to us?

And if they are still good, why don't they just sell them to their own citizens?

edit: I just found this in Wikopedia:

South Korea:

In South Korea, it is a capital offense for anyone not related to military to own or distribute firearms.
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Old August 26, 2010, 05:25 PM   #13
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I'd rather have one of these as a shooter to be abused and loved. You know? Not like "I'm gonna use this as a boat paddle!" but, more as a gun that I could take to the range and not worry about refinishing the stock from time to time (just exaggerating).

I'd also like to point out that I feel that the importation of these weapons from south korea should be handled no differently than the importation of Mosins, Nagants, Mausers, Enfields and the like. Plus, the South Koreans are decent folks, we should just let them sell their guns to us.
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Old August 28, 2010, 06:59 AM   #14
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I'm going to repeat it...

maybe wikipedia is wrong... I hope so.

So, our friend South Korea, who we are protecting from the evil communist north of them... if they, S. Korea, catch one of their citizens with a gun they execute them?

I say they can keep their 100K rifles and .....
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Old September 1, 2010, 08:11 PM   #15
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Fox News just posted a very detailed article. Unfortunately it looks like this isn't just some spat over who owns the rifles - it's the administration reversing course over the typical Anti-gun talking points, like accidents and terrorists.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...ique-m-rifles/
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Old September 1, 2010, 08:58 PM   #16
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They say our economy is in the toilet...

If South Korea sold each rifle for $200.00 USD then South Korea (our ally) would have $171,494,000.00 to spend on military equipment. This would mean less military aid from the US which would save us... insert number here... and when they spent that cash on military equipment, who do you think they would buy it from? There's some good sales to give a boost to our economy. Not to mention we would be helping an ally defend themselves from North Korea (NOT an ally).

If the importers who bought those guns sold them for $500.00 to the public that would mean a $300.00 profit. That's $257,241,000.00 (yes that's in millions) in profit alone from the sales. I'm no expert, but I'm guessing that amount of sales wouldn't be a bad thing for our economy.

This is what I think about one small part of the issue. If I'm wrong someone please correct me. Also these numbers are pure speculation and not researched at all, more of a conservative guesstimation.
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