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Old August 7, 2010, 07:40 AM   #1
Regular_Joe
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S&W Slim 709

My wife is currently carrying the Sig Sauer P239 - a great small frame gun that seems to shoot anything we feed it.

However, as it has a lot of steel, it is heavier than most comparably-sized guns, and she is noticing that her arms are tired after about 20 minutes of range time. It is also a bit bulky - easy for her to open carry, not so easy for her to conceal carry.

She has looked at several models and really loves the feel of Taurus' new Slim 709. Slide is easy to rack and the gun is very light. (I know, I know...from Sig to Taurus...)

However, she can't seem to find this new model at any local range to shoot. Does anyone own this gun? If so, could you share your thoughts about it?

Taurus' product page is down this morning, but here is a link from Tactical-Life.com:
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/...s-709-slim-9mm
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Old August 7, 2010, 08:34 AM   #2
spodwo
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Quote:
S&W Slim 709
In the .40? That may hurt...there is no such thing as a "s&w 709 slim" - there is a a 740 Slim that is chambered for the 40 S&W...so I am confused by the title of your thread.

I had a 709 in the 9mm. I don't know about that light of pistol shooting a .40 S&W...

I liked my 9mm a lot but it would choke on certain types of ammo - most notably Winchester White Box 9mm. It also had issues with the slide lock staying open on the last round with both magazines.

These issues started cropping up around 200 rounds through it....

Eventually I sent it back to Taurus in Miami [they paid shipping both ways]. It came back with a replace extractor and the slide stop "adjusted". It still had FTEs on WWB....

So I had an opportunity to replace it due to a fire/loss/tragedy. I thought about buying another one but instead went with a PX4 Beretta. That one doesn't choke on any kind of ammo....

I liked the feel of it, the accuracy BUT I want something that can shoot all the brands and mine just wouldn't. Others mileage may vary with that pistol. I heard they re-designed the extractor also.

Taurusarmed.net has a lot of reviews, discussion, etc. on the 709 Slim. You may want to search there for more information....I haven't heard much on the .40 version of it. There is a long thread on a 740 Slim there - a guy just recently bought it....

Last edited by spodwo; August 7, 2010 at 11:59 AM.
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Old August 7, 2010, 11:02 AM   #3
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You'll probably catch a lot of flack for your thread title, especially from the Smith & Wesson folks! There are a lot of Taurus haters.

Regarding the Taurus PT-709, I have over 1200 rounds of at least a dozen different FMJ and JHP ammo with no significant issues. It is my daily carry and I have as much confidence in it as any of my other handguns.

For a small gun, it is not too uncomfortable to shoot. No problem with putting 50 rounds down range in a practice session. The 709 needs to be kept squeaky clean, and you need to give it a THOROUGH cleaning before you shoot it the first time.

Some 709s are finicky about WWB ammo, and some have extractor problems. Mine has not suffered from either of these afflictions.

A couple of reasons I chose the 709: 1) it has a manual safety; 2) it has 'second strike' capability - if a round doesn't go bang on the first trigger pull, you can pull the trigger again. I figure this is just another insurance policy if I ever need the gun in a bad situation.

I have no reservations about recommending the PT-709.
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Old August 7, 2010, 01:42 PM   #4
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I got a 709 in May. Worked with 100% reliability for 175 rounds. However the cases were bulging so I sent it in for repair.
Six weeks later I get the pistol back with a new barrel; the original barrel was numbered like the frame & slide, the replacement was blank.
The case bulging problem was fixed, but now cases were flung at my head. I was using the same ammo that worked fine before the "repair".
I traded the 709 this week.
That's my experience.
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Old August 7, 2010, 02:48 PM   #5
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A lot of owners have complained about FTEs due to broken extractors and failure to fire due to weak primer strikes. YMMV, but for me, there were plenty of other options in the class that didn't have the reliability questions.

It's a shame, because I would love to have one if I thought it would work.
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Old August 7, 2010, 03:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
She has looked at several models and really loves the feel of Taurus' new Slim 709. Slide is easy to rack and the gun is very light. (I know, I know...from Sig to Taurus...)

However, she can't seem to find this new model at any local range to shoot. Does anyone own this gun? If so, could you share your thoughts about it?
Lots of complaints about quality control issues with this gun. It feels great in the hand, though, and the one I shot worked fine. But it seems to be a crapshoot as to whether you'll get one that causes a lot of headaches or not.

Have you looked at the Walther PPS? It's an outstanding little pistol. Very well-made, accurate, and reliable. Sell the Sig, if necessary. The Walther is worth every penny and then some over the Taurus. (It's also backed by S&W's unmatched customer service.)
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Old August 7, 2010, 03:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
YMMV, but for me, there were plenty of other options in the class that didn't have the reliability questions.

It's a shame, because I would love to have one if I thought it would work.
That's how I feel about Taurus's TCP. I like almost everything about it better than the Ruger LCP -- except its reputation for problems.
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Old August 7, 2010, 04:29 PM   #8
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Mine works great.
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Old August 7, 2010, 05:00 PM   #9
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Take a real hard look at the Walther PPS Regular_Joe. It costs a bit more than the 709 but is an excellent piece of German engineering.

I've had one for 16 months and it's been super accurate and uber reliable.

Does it cost more? Yes. Is it worth it? Absolutely.

Just my 2 cents...
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Old August 7, 2010, 05:25 PM   #10
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Another plus for the Walther PPS from this corner of the Internet.

I picked up a used one pretty cheap. Had quite a few failures with it. Called up S&W to ask for recommendations. I thought maybe I was doing something wrong...

They sent a prepaid shipping label to return the gun for investigation.

They called a week or so later to tell me that the ejector was broken which is integrated into the frame on this gun so it was not repairable..... but they would send me a brand new gun for replacement....

I was shocked to say the least.

My new gun showed up from FedEx about a week after they told me that. Brand new, in the box....

Not 1 penny out of my pocket after purchasing a cheap used gun, I got a brand-spankin' new one for free.

Now that's good customer service.

Do I own guns that are more fun to shoot? Absolutely.

Do I own guns that more ergonomic or comfortable to shoot? Of course.

Do I own guns that are more expensive? Yes. Cheaper? Certainly.

Do I own guns that are more comfortable or easy to carry on a daily basis? NOPE.
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Old August 7, 2010, 05:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
They called a week or so later to tell me that the ejector was broken which is integrated into the frame on this gun so it was not repairable..... but they would send me a brand new gun for replacement....
S&W CS IS the best in the business and I would definitely take a look at the PPS.

However, an integrated extractor which cannot be fixed would give me great pause in getting one.
I like to be able to do some fixes myself if needed.
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Old August 7, 2010, 05:37 PM   #12
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Ejector, not extractor.

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Old August 16, 2010, 12:17 PM   #13
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No, I meant extractor. Sorry to see ejector problems, too.
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Old August 16, 2010, 02:42 PM   #14
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I am a Taurus hater - sorry. But, here are a bunch of links of problems people have had - several are about that model. Honestly - I'd look at something else..

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1235937

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414483

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=95429

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=95737

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...ghlight=taurus

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...ghlight=taurus

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ghlight=taurus

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/wheelgu...t-out-box.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ghlight=taurus

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...taurus+quality

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=399341

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/non-xd-...lore-help.html

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...taurus+quality

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/non-xd-...anty-work.html

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...taurus+quality

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415691

http://www.gundirectory.com/more.asp...259&gun=Pistol
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Old August 16, 2010, 03:06 PM   #15
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23 taurus problem links! WOW You sure went to allot of effort.

I'm wondering if I could dig up 23 links that refer to glock problems? hmmm?

Ah, yep. Sure can.

I like the Springfield Sigma
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Old August 16, 2010, 04:36 PM   #16
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I saved those links over the times I came across them... Actually, I got tired of seeing all the horrible service people have reported by Taurus. After years of thinking - "I should save some of these links and give them to people when they ask about opinions of Taurus" - I finally did.

I wish I had saved some really old threads - some went on for 18+ months... People sending the same gun back and back and back and back.. Sometimes getting the gun back with ZERO work done on it, but claims otherwise.... The people inflicted with the bad Taurus would keep the thread alive with updates....

Have a good Taurus? I'm happy for ya. But I've seen more than enough stories that border on the absurd over the years to say - why give a company like that any money?

Sure, people tend to complain more than say good things - but when is enough enough. Roll the dice if you want to...
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Old August 16, 2010, 06:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
23 taurus problem links! WOW You sure went to allot of effort.

I'm wondering if I could dig up 23 links that refer to glock problems? hmmm?

Ah, yep. Sure can.
You can find 23 links to problems with anything, from guns to dishwashers. That doesnt change the fact that Taurus has more problems then most manufactures. That being said, your wife has a excellent carry gun right now, don't get her a inferior replacement.

Has she tried any Kahr pistols? Glocks? Smith and Wesson M&P's? There are alot of options out there, I would steer clear of any and all Taurus.
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Old August 16, 2010, 07:41 PM   #18
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I would only recommend Taurus's METAL-FRAMED pistols. Their polymer-framed guns have ALWAYS had a hit or miss reputation.

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Old August 16, 2010, 08:24 PM   #19
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Please let your wife look at/hold/shoot a Kahr CW9. Shouldn't cost a whole lot more and is a whole lot better. In my opinion of course
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