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Old August 7, 2010, 02:47 PM   #26
Daryl
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just like all the .40s&w kabooms was just a few guns?
'Tis a better business move to fix something without notice, than to admit guilt...or in this case, fault in your product. Negate the problem in the minds of the consumer, and then fix it so's no one will really notice.

I owned a Gen2 G20 that lacked a fully supported chamber. I know what the unsupported chamber/barrel looked like, and I know what caused the infamous "Glock Smilie". I now have a new Gen 3 G23, and the chamber appears to be fully supported. I'm not sure when they fixed it, but the problem appears to be fixed. Time will kill the KB! legends, and all will be well for Glock. They blamed it on bad ammo, but they fixed the problem.

In the case of the Gen4 G17, they're again blaming "weak ammo", but they offered a fix.

It's a great business move on their part; maybe not so great for an individual consumer, depending on which issue and what kind of damage (if any) was done.

Caveat Emptor

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Old August 7, 2010, 03:06 PM   #27
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Don't mess with reliability

One really great thing about a Glock used to be that you could pretty much count on it's reliability right out of the box.
I suppose now i have test each one with several hundred rounds like I do with a new 1911? I know I should do that any way with any gun but with the gen3 guns it was almost a given.

I'm sure it's been said before many times but "If it ain't broke don't fix it"
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Old August 7, 2010, 06:41 PM   #28
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No, not the guns...just a few bad reloads.

Y'all put too much emphasis on the internet. You need you get hands-on experience...
The fact you think all kabooms are the result a few reloads proves you lack any real world experience.

You might want to get more experience than a subscription to Guns and Ammo before pretending to be an expert.
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Last edited by Sturmgewehre; August 7, 2010 at 10:36 PM.
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Old August 7, 2010, 06:50 PM   #29
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What timing on this thread. I was just looking at Glocks today. Glock 22 to be specific.

Questions...
Are the Gen 4s the RTS version? I looked at both and actually prefered the feel of the "normal" grip.
How do I know if it's Gen 3 or Gen 4?
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Old August 7, 2010, 07:13 PM   #30
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So COSteve, are you saying that all of the below 9mm ammunition is weak, "wimpy" & sub-standard 9mm rounds that should not be fired in a Glock gen 4? Because, I had FTE on these brands/types of 9mm ammo, with my gen 4 17.

Federal American Eagle Full Metal Jacket, 124 GR, 1090 fps
NATO M882 FMJ, 124 GR, >1200 fps
Speer Lawman 9mm 115gr FMJ, >1200 fps
Remington UMC 9 MM, FMJ, 115 GR, 1135 fps
Master-Cast FMJ 115gr, 1160 fps.
147gr JHP unknown Manufacture given to me to try by local LEO’s on the range.
CCI Blazer 9mm Luger 115gr FMJ, 1145 fps
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Old August 7, 2010, 07:46 PM   #31
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At one time I'd have said the G17 is the gold standard of Glock's product line. Now I'm not so sure.
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Old August 7, 2010, 09:12 PM   #32
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let's play pretend

Let's pretend the local PD issues Glocks in 40, like over 100.
Let's pretend we know who made the ammo for them.
Let's further NOT pretend that none zero nada EVER had a KB.
But let's not pretend one iota that we-know-who has handled numerous pieces-o-Glock-40s that did have a bit of a problem with KBs.

In defense o Glock, I am personally aware (as in "handled and examined the pieces") of numerous other brands of KBd 40s.
And 45 ACP.



But the brand new Glock M17 I won, while never fired by me, when sold to an aquaintance, had immediate failures with quality factory ammo by its new owners.
So nothing is always perfect.

I still recommend Glock pistols as quality firearms; I just have personal preferences for different brands.
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Old August 11, 2010, 06:56 PM   #33
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A few of you requested that I give an update as to the progress on my FTE Glock 17 Gen 4. I have good news and bad news.
Here is it is. As requested Glock sent me a 02 spring, as you can see by the pictures it has one or two less coils than the 01 spring. It is theorized by some that the original spring (I will call it the 01 spring for brevity) was/is too stiff to cycle properly with lightly loaded ammo, I respectfully submit (in my case at least) that’s not the case because, I used multiple types of 9mm ammo noting no difference in FTE rates between lightly loaded ammo or higher performance ammo. Below is a list of the ammo that I had FTE’s with this weapon.

Federal American Eagle Full Metal Jacket, 124 GR, 1090 fps
NATO M882 FMJ, 124 GR, >1200 fps
Speer Lawman 9mm 115gr FMJ, >1200 fps
Remington UMC 9 MM, FMJ, 115 GR, 1135 fps
Master-Cast FMJ 115gr, 1160 fps.
147gr JHP unknown Manufacture.
CCI Blazer 9mm Luger 115gr FMJ, 1145 fps

Today I managed to fire off approximately 200 rounds before I had an FTE with the 02 spring installed. Another 150 down the pipe netted another FTE. A great improvement over the 01 spring were I was getting an FTE every 20/30 rounds; however, still not satisfactory, at least by my standards. Today I used:

NATO M882 FMJ, 124 GR, >1200 fps
Lawman 9mm 115gr FMJ, >1200 fps
Master-Cast FMJ 115gr, 1160 fps.

I was out of the weaker ammunition; in any event, looking at it objectively I thought maybe it’s “Me” am I “limp wristing” this pistol? After 35 years of shooting pistols have I lost it? So I fired off two full mags using one hand, holding the pistol has lightly as possible; result, no FTE’s. The situation was getting very annoying to say the least until, I field stripped the pistol to clean it and SHAZAM! I could not remove the spring from the slide; the ending coil tang had worked its way into the aperture where the guide rod resides, canting the spring slightly, so that the base of the spring that rests against the barrel was not square against the barrel but at a slight angle. I managed to work the barrel out from under the spring and using a wooden dowel tap the spring out of the slide. Closer inspection of the spring tip shows where the spring wants to “slip inside” the hole meant for the guide rod. I submit that some Glock 17 gen 4 slides have either been machined slightly out of specification (too large) with regards to the guide rod aperture and/or the design of the recoil spring was faulty, not allowing for the spring to rebound from a stable platform but instead workings its way into the guide rod aperture canting the spring and causing intermittent FTE’s. All of this happened with the 02 spring, the 01 spring never became stuck and its allegedly the stronger spring. Bottom line, very poor design.

In the pictures the spring on the left is the 02 spring. Also, if you look close you can see where the ending coil is workings its way through the guide rod hole, and "YES" it was installed correctly. Lastly, I noticed a lot of brass shaving and bit's on the slide for only having 350 rounds shot today. What say you? Thanks for your time.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Glock 17 Spring 1.jpg (248.8 KB, 103 views)
File Type: jpg Glock 17 Spring Jammed in Upper Receiver.jpg (249.6 KB, 112 views)
File Type: jpg Glock 17 Bass Shavings.jpg (258.7 KB, 107 views)
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Old August 11, 2010, 07:59 PM   #34
AustinTX
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Well, if you're doing everything you should be, then it sounds like you have a defective pistol. That's a ridiculous malfunction rate.

See if the store where you bought it will help you out first, i.e. take it off your hands and replace it with another Glock, replace it with another brand entirely, or give you a full refund. Failing that, you can trade it away/sell it for a loss, which I might consider. I'm not sure I could learn to ever trust a gun that had that many malfunctions with so many different kinds of ammo, regardless of the repairs done to it. Finally, you can demand that Glock correct the situation under warranty. I don't know anything about CS, but I would insist that they mail me a shipping label for the gun.
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Old August 11, 2010, 08:10 PM   #35
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Last edited by Sturmgewehre; August 7, 2010 at 11:36 PM.


The fact you think all kabooms are the result a few reloads proves you lack any real world experience.

You might want to get more experience than a subscription to Guns and Ammo before pretending to be an expert.
Are you stalking me?

You don't have a clue about me, so don't pretend to...
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Old August 11, 2010, 09:13 PM   #36
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he said that the problem was with all of the people who were shooting weak loads in the gun. I asked for the "upgraded" guide rod, and he interrupted to say that it wasn't considered any sort of "upgrade" by the company, but instead a "courtesy" being offered for those who wouldn't shoot "real" ammo in the gun.
Hmmm.....Dennis is working for Glock, now?
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Old August 11, 2010, 09:37 PM   #37
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Who is Dennis?
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Old August 12, 2010, 11:56 AM   #38
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Just not as reliable as they could be.
I'm not sure what you meant by this statement. To me, "not as reliable as they could be" translates to being unreliable.
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Old August 12, 2010, 03:07 PM   #39
Sturmgewehre
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Are you stalking me?
Nope, just responding to your goofy posts.

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You don't have a clue about me, so don't pretend to...
You're right. I know almost nothing about you. All I have to judge you by are your posts here... and given what I've read here, you're talking out of your posterior.

You pretended to know something about me when you tossed your little insult about getting experience. How about practicing a little of what you preach?
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Old August 12, 2010, 03:11 PM   #40
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NickW,

It would seem there's something wrong with your pistol. I would contact Glock about a replacement slide at the very least. Chances are there's something out of spec with the pistol that's causing you problems.

Personally, I would get it repaired by Glock and sell/trade it for a Gen 3 G17.
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Old August 12, 2010, 07:51 PM   #41
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Nick,

I have a new Gen 4 with over 300 rounds of Speer Lawman 115 gr TMJ’s through it with no issues. I know your problem is real and I couldn’t help but notice in the third photo that the bottom angled portion of your barrel lug is taking quit a beating. I just field stripped my gun to be certain and after 300 rounds there isn’t a mark on the barrel lug. I also had some brass shavings when I first fired the gun but in my second session had very little, probably a break in issue. I would tend to agree that you’ve got a bad slide or barrel. In any event, Glock should make good on it. Good Luck.
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Old August 13, 2010, 05:04 AM   #42
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Captain; I've cleaned it after every shoot and I still get a boat load of brass shavings in the upper receiver. I had a local Glock Armorer look it over and he found nothing wrong; however, he is well aware of the 17 Gen 4 issues and he does not have a spec sheet so he can't check measurments. In any event, I will be sending it back to Glock.

Strumgewehre; When the pistol returns maybe I will trade it in, I don't have any faith in it right now. Perhaps I will go back to Beretta, something I know will work when I need it to, albeit a bit bulky for ccw. That's the thing, I liked the slim profile of the 17, with the proper holster and belt it would conceal nicely. I know I said I would not do it but, perhaps I will try an after markey spring from Jager Products.

Many thanks to all who responded.

Cheers.
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