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Old July 24, 2010, 08:58 AM   #1
MO. Shootin
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Please help with a brass problem.

I hate to post this but I am going to anyway. I will probably figure it out eventually but I sure am wondering now.

I loaded some Winchester 124 grn flat base fmj in my 9mm Glock 19. I could not find a C.O.L for that exact bullet so I looked at the number for a sierra 125 fmj. Also I took my barrel out of my pistol and looked at how the finished round looked in my barrel compared to a factory 115 grn and they looked the same to my eye. C.O.L was 1.130 for my reload.

The problem is when I shot those rounds it left an abrasion on the case mouth on one spot on all the brass. I was at the low end on my powder charge. It actually left a little soot down the side of the case mouth which I have always assumed was a sign of a low pressure round.

So now I wonder if I overcrimped and messed up how the cartrige head spaced or if my C.O.L was too long. The gun is very new but I have fired a couple hundred factory ammo thru it and did not notice the problem on those cases.

The gun functioned perfectly and really shot great groups but I just have to figure this case mouth abrasion thing out. Any help would be much appreciated.
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Old July 24, 2010, 09:25 AM   #2
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Is your seating die fully removing the expander flare? Do you have a Lee Factory Crimp die you can run the finished round through to be sure nothing is protruding excessively? Can you put up a photo of the scuff or describe it more completely?
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Old July 24, 2010, 09:30 AM   #3
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brass

New brass, old brass, resized how many times?
Did you measure the resized empty brass shell?
What does new factory brass look like after initial firing?
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Old July 24, 2010, 09:54 AM   #4
MO. Shootin
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Unclenick I wish I could post a pic but can't at this time. It is a small notch going length ways at the very edge of the case mouth not side to side or anything. In my very inexperieced mind I keep thinking that maybe it could be caused by the extractor but the extractor would not be down that far on the case ever would it?

These are once fired brass I bought from a guy. I bought a thousand of them and have loaded probably 600 of them already and fired them out of a S&W 439 and a Beretta 92fs with no problems at all. I just have something screwed up with this glock load.

The reason I really hated to post this is because I have really not had time to do my homework before I posted this, I just have it on my mind. I have not measured my O.L of my brass yet to see if it needs trimmed, it has not been a problem in the other guns but maybe this one is a little more picky. I have it in my head that you don't usually have to trim 9mm?
I have fired some reloads in the gun with this same bullet at a shorter depth and did not have this problem but have since had to reset my seating die so I am at wondering about over crimp or under crimp or too long of a C.O.L or the highly unlikely thought that I may have damaged somthing dry firing with snap caps.

No I don't have a factory crimp die. I had not had any problems until now. I guess I can see they are usefull now.
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Old July 24, 2010, 10:03 AM   #5
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Sorry ammo crafter I was responding while you where responding.

I think I answered most of the questions you had anyway in that response but the factory brass has looked fine in the past. I need to fire some factory rounds to make sure something is not wrong with the gun.
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Old July 24, 2010, 10:42 AM   #6
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Have you tried running a loaded round through the gun without firing it?
Whether or not the mark is there on the ejected, but unfired round, might give a clue as to where to look.
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Old July 24, 2010, 10:47 AM   #7
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Are you sure there is no mark on them after you run them through your sizing die that has expanded on firing? It's not uncommon for something caught in the sizing die to cause lengthwise scratches. One culprit is nickel flaked off a nickel plated case that has stuck in the carbide ring. In that case, cleaning is needed.

The same sort of thing can occasionally happen in a gun. You can get a piece of nickel stuck in the chamber or a piece of case brass with some grit in it. It may not mark the brass until pressure expands the case before extraction, but as the last post says, you should feed and extract some rounds unfired to see if that mark appears. Also look for brass streaks in the chamber that would indicate the bad spot, and check the feed ramp and magazines for brass marks to see if it is happening there?

Cleaning the chamber with a copper solvent cleaner will remove brass. Polishing the chamber a little with some JB Bore compound on a chamber brush may help, too?
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Old July 24, 2010, 10:54 AM   #8
MO. Shootin
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Good idea gwilikers I actually just thought of that a second ago. Something else I just remembered It was a little harder to lock the magazine in. I found my self just giving it a tap on the bottom to get it to lock in. maybe I should say that I am not really sure I loaded the full 15 rounds in mag before yesterday, for some reason I usually only load like 10 in and shoot. It gives me a chance to look at my target with the gun empty and I tend to not shoot as fast.

Now I am really wondering if I screwed something up. Guys I really must appologize for not doing my homework before posting this. I am at work and can't mess with the gun till 7 pm. Wonder if I somehow screwed up my extractor?
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Old July 24, 2010, 11:43 AM   #9
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Extractor marks are all at the rear of the case. Overly aggressive extraction can cause a case to spin so its mouth strikes the gun before clearing the ejection port, but this also creates a dent in the case mouth. If your mark has no dent associated with it, the extractor is not the issue in any way that I can see off hand.
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Old July 24, 2010, 12:05 PM   #10
MO. Shootin
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Yep I probably should have mentioned that the case is deformed a little (as in dented some on the same side as the mark.

What would cause an overly aggressive extractor? What I mean by that is would it get more violent with a different load? I really need to do some experimenting and looking and cleaning. Hmm I wonder if I ever cleaned the lube of those? They did not feel slick.

I will let you guys know what I come up with. You guys have really given me a lot of things to look. A picture really would have helped sorry I can't post one now.
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Old July 25, 2010, 07:36 AM   #11
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Ok I guess it is from the extractor spinning the case and contacting something. I checked some factory cases and they had the mark also.

So then I checked the 2 peices of brass that comes with the gun and they both have the mark. I also looked at some brass fired by my old beretta and it had a mark also but it did not stand out so much with the beretta.

So I guess it must be normal to a degree. It sure looks like it will shorten brass life but I doubt that it will cause a problem if I just don't reload them over say 5 times I guess. I guess a lot of guys just go till the case mouth splits. Is that a safe practice?

I would post a picture but I can't figure it out. It says something about starting an album but I can't find the link it talks about going to. I am not a computer guy.
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Old July 25, 2010, 11:47 AM   #12
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When you click to post the reply, scroll down below the composition window to the button that says "Manage Attachments" in the Attach Files box. Inside you get an option to upload images just by browsing to their file location and clicking on them and then clicking on the Upload button. This will attach photos as long as the files aren't too large.

If they are big, go to ImageShack.us. Again, browse to select the image file. About 2/3 down the page you get the option to resize. Select a size. 640x480 is a good limit for boards. Then tell it to upload. It will resize on the fly if your image is larger than that, but leaves it alone if it is not.

After it uploads, Image Shack takes you to a new page with links. Click on the one that says "Direct Link". Highlight and copy the direct link. Come back to the post composition window. Put the cursor where you want the photo, then click on the little postcard icon at the top of the window. A pop-up window will appear with an address bar. Click in that to highlight "http://" and then paste in the Image Shack address you copied. (That copy will have its own "http://" so when you finish, make use the back arrow to scroll left and make sure you didn't get two? You only want that once.) Then click the OK button and your image, hosted at Image Shack, will be inserted by that link.

The case spin around and dent is affected by loads because the more energy they transfer to the slide, the faster the slide recoils back. The two common gunsmithing steps to address this are to put in a stiffer recoil spring, and to alter the ejector nose form and maybe set it back a bit. You can get springs from Wolff to try for yourself (scroll down to find the model 19; they make 4 "extra power" weights you could try). I would use an experienced Glock pistol smith to modify the ejector. Be aware that either step may make the gun less reliable with light loads.

Reloading cases until you start to get splits is not uncommon, at which point you usually pitch the whole lot of brass. It's one reason to keep lots together so they all have the same load history. Keep in mind your cases are not likely to hit the exact same spot on the case every time, so they may last longer than you think.

You should be able to look around on the gun and find brass traces where the cases hit. See if its a spot you can safely round and polish the edge of that is causing the scratch mark?
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Last edited by Unclenick; July 25, 2010 at 11:52 AM.
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Old July 25, 2010, 11:59 AM   #13
g.willikers
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Those dents are nothing to worry about.
1911s, with the original ejection port design, have been doing that for nearly a century.
Pistol cases are usually quite safe to repeatedly reload until they show signs of splitting.
Those might never split.
It just depends on pressures and what other trauma they go through.
Over expanding the mouth, and crimping it back down, during reloading, probably causes more case splitting than anything else.
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Old July 25, 2010, 12:15 PM   #14
MO. Shootin
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Thanks guys I really appreciate it.
Another case solved on the firing line. he he he
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